Valiant Living Podcast
Welcome to the Valiant Living Podcast where we educate, encourage, and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom.
Valiant Living has been restoring lives and families since 2017 by providing multiple levels of care for men and their families. Fully accredited by The Joint Commission, Valiant Living has earned a national reputation as a premier treatment program, offering IOP, PHP, and recovery housing programs for men ages 26 and older. Founder and CEO MIchael Dinneen is a nationally recognized therapeutic expert, speaker, and thought leader in the behavioral health field.
On this podcast you’ll hear from the Valiant team as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at (720)-756-7941 or email admissions@valiantliving.com We’d love to have a conversation with you!
Valiant Living Podcast
Inside an IFS Session: Experiencing Real-Time Healing with Sarah Houy
Ever been told that “real” trauma work should leave you wrung out and wrecked? We take that myth apart and show a different path—one built on careful pacing, body awareness, and tiny changes that add up. With training across EMDR, IFS, neurofeedback, and trauma‑sensitive yoga, our guest guides a live Internal Family Systems demo that turns abstract ideas into a concrete experience you can feel.
We start by swapping “triggers” for trailheads and using a simple life satisfaction check to find where to begin. A tight chest and tense shoulders open a path to a childhood scarcity memory and a protector who keeps every plate spinning. That drive to hustle isn’t random; it’s guarding against shame and the terror of being unlovable or losing belonging. You’ll hear how work can become a numbing strategy, why avoidance and the inner critic quietly slow healing, and how to tell the difference between productive discomfort and harmful pain.
Then comes the turn: self‑energy. When we access that lighter, hopeful, creative core, protectors often want to help in new ways—without the exhaustion. Instead of overnight reinvention, we lean on cognitive neuroscience: 1–3% changes. Track the moments you fear disappointing your family. Notice when people‑pleasing spikes. Name the inner critic, and pause before numbing. Observation builds choice, and choice builds momentum.
If IFS resonates, we share practical next steps to find certified support via the IFS Institute and high‑quality resources from Richard Schwartz. No plastic‑banana knockoffs, no heroics—just honest work at a humane pace. If this conversation helped you see your patterns with more kindness, follow the show, share it with someone who needs a gentler approach, and leave a review to help more people find it.
If you or someone you love is struggling with addiction, you don’t have to face it alone.
Valiant Living helps men and their families move from crisis to stability through clinically driven care, community, and hope.
Learn more about our programs at www.valiantliving.com
or call us confidentially at (720) 796-6885 to speak with someone who can help.
Oftentimes, people who come in and say they're doing trauma work, or you know, because I I've been a trauma therapist for 16 years now, right? Um, have been trained in multiple different modalities, EMDR, IFS, neurofeedback, and I'm a trauma-sensitive yoga therapist. So I have committed my life to helping people walk that road of healing with trauma recovery. And I think one of the biggest misconceptions I hear is that trauma work needs to be really intense and really, it's like um getting paddles to your chest or something, right? That it needs this like big thing, you know. And so people come in, you know, now more than they did 25 years ago when trauma was just reserved for veterans, right? It's in the water, it's in the soup, it's in the thing, people are talking about it. There's even some awareness, I think, of some of these modalities, but there's still this misperception that like trauma work must be intense, right? And you must come out of it hungover and a place that is, and it's like that's actually that is not the mark of a really good trauma experience, like recovery experience. So when you were just saying, like, I'm an open book, I like to dive in, but yet, like, I may want to think about some of the things that I share in that way, is exactly how we work with anybody, regardless of whether it's being recorded for a podcast or not, right? Because your system, as you're sitting across from somebody, whether it's on a video or whether it's with a therapist, you're sitting there deciding what you choose to disclose and what you choose not to disclose. Right. And to be in a place where you we never get bigger wins with a shortcut of moving faster than what your system wants to move, right?
SPEAKER_04:Say that again.
SPEAKER_01:We never get wins when we take the shortcut of moving faster than your system wanting to move. Right.
SPEAKER_04:So it's never a goal for you to push someone faster than what they're ready to go, basically is what you're saying.
SPEAKER_01:No, absolutely not. Because, and the best metaphor that I can use for this is the metaphor of the physical body, right? So, like when you think about a really good workout, right? A really good workout, you're gonna sweat, you're gonna know you worked out, you might be sore the next day or two, but you are not going to be in pain or tear anything. Because if you push yourself too hard and you overtrain, you're actually gonna injure yourself. And then you have to recover. And then your time to get to where you want to go has just been extended instead of shortened.
SPEAKER_04:Got it.
SPEAKER_01:So I spend a lot of time with people in the beginning talking about the difference between discomfort and pain. Because for a lot of trauma survivors, especially with addiction, um, as one of their protective parts, and we'll talk about parts versus what does that even mean, um, as one of their protectors, it's really tricky to understand that threshold. And in the beginning, a lot of it is like, does that feel okay? And you'll hear me say a lot, like, do you have a yellow light, right? You don't need to have a green light where you're like totally comfortable with all of the things. But if you really do have a red light in your system of like, I'm not gonna go there or I don't want to go there, and you push it, your system will backlash against you and you will actually go backwards, not forwards. So it's that that delicate balance of being able to stay, as Michael says, comfortably uncomfortable. Is that perfect training threshold? So you may, I'm gonna, I'm gonna run you through that stuff, and you may get to a place where you're uh beyond comfortably uncomfortable. And if you don't listen to that in service to whatever greater good is out there, your system is gonna respond in a way that is going to actually put you backwards, not forwards with what's going on.
SPEAKER_04:That makes so much sense.
SPEAKER_01:It's actually really good for people to hear.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it really. I mean, well, as I'm as you're talking about this, what I'm thinking, because we at Valiant, we deal specifically with men. And I I would think that this whole like opening disclaimer, if you will, of what you're saying is so important to hear to frame this because I would imagine it's what keeps a lot of men from wanting to do the work, even going to because I know like when I went to re when I came to Valiant, I had no context for rehab or treatment centers. I was like, are they just gonna put me in a padded room? And I'm thinking like psych ward, like then I get to Valiant and I'm like, wait a minute, this feels nothing like what I expected, and trauma work felt nothing like I expected. Yeah, in some good ways, some and we go we got to some intense places, but I've said on here before the first week or two was all about like trying to get the shame out of the way so we could even start doing the work. It wasn't come in and beat me up. So have you seen in your experience specifically with men this like having to almost debunk the myths around trauma work so that guys will even go there in the first place or you be willing to engage. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I think specifically, and especially in in a PHP or an IOP setting, right, where the level of care is higher. I think you have to debunk the myth on both sides. That really intense trauma work looks like you know, weeping and gnashing of teeth, and you're, you know, losing your mind, and it's this really intense cathartic experience. And like that may be a piece of it. Um, but sometimes really good trauma work looks like consistent steps forward every day, right? Like it's consistently showing up, it's being in that place. So it's not the like, well, I'm not ready to do like I it's kind of like I can't go to the gym until I'm healthy. Like, well, that's not true. Like, in order to get healthy, you have to go to the gym. Like you have to keep showing up and keep doing things. Um, but but if you're if you're showing up and you're pushing it too far too soon, um, you're gonna you're gonna injure the muscle, right? And then you have to go backwards and you you end up. I what I see is people that push it too fast too soon end up then being like, I suck at therapy, I'm never gonna get through this. There's something I'm doing wrong. This isn't for me, right? When it's like, well, no, that's not any of those things. You have to address you, you know, the training load that your system. So we spend a lot of time in the beginning sensing what the training load is, right? Of um, how does that feel, right? Or even just saying something like you said of like, I have something that I may want to share, but I'm not quite sure if I want to share. Okay, let's pause with that, right? Instead of just like going directly for, you know, your deepest childhood wound when we know that a lot of this stuff is from family of origin or different things that have happened or cultural burdens or different things. But if you're not one of my other favorite metaphors or sayings, I guess, is we go as fast as our slowest rower, right? So we gotta you you work as a team in IFS, right? And so it's a delicate balance of being able to work with all the parts to be able to gain that trust to let you go there in that way. And and ultimately it's faster and less expensive if you do it with buy-in from your system internally, because it's like I say, when when your system is on board doing the like deeper reprocessing of traumatic memories or you know, things like that and burdenings, it's like cutting butter with a hot knife. Like once you're there, it's but it's all the preparation stuff that's so um important that oftentimes gets missed. So yeah, for a guy coming in, I see it like 50-50 of like, I want to do the trauma work, I, you know, let's get after it, right? Like super dysregulated, they just want to feel better. So they think if they like come in and they just get into their work, then it's gonna like work. And then we have the other side of people who their system might be a little bit more used to the coping skill of avoidance or um dissociation or numbness, and they just don't want to go there, period.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so then they then then there's a different process of like helping them to go there, right? Versus like helping them, the other side of like, hey, let's wait and build some trust in the system before you go in like a bull in a china shop and try and get your your money's worth out of your trauma experience.
SPEAKER_04:That was me. I'm laughing at myself because I'm like, I go in with all this like people pleasing, narcissistic. Like, I'm gonna go in and I'm gonna be the best client Valiant has ever seen, and I'm gonna ace this program, and they're probably gonna graduate me out of here early because of how well I do in the first week or two. And what ended up happening with me is it actually delayed my my because they were like, you weren't even ready to really work until like week three. So like they were like, okay, now you're ready to start, but they had to break down all the like I'm gonna I came in with my homework assignments done early. I was just like all in it, and they're looking at me laughing like this guy. Like, when is he just gonna relax? And because it's true. I I mean, I'm three years into recovery. I feel like a baby still, I'm still learning. I'm I mean, real clunky. And especially with IFS stuff, I mean, there is stuff even now, like even this last weekend, that is still coming up, and I'm learning. So it would be foolish, like you said, for me to try to rush the process and to like check the box, if you will, because it just feels like it just keeps coming. The more we do the work and the more we learn about ourselves, the more we grow. And so it's like to allow someone with my personality, allow me just to be patient with the process and say, hey, in 20 years from now, I'll probably gonna have another aha moment that's gonna draw me closer to, you know, more healing. And so I love that you're giving us permission to go at whatever pace feels appropriate. I think that's so important.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think you know, the flip side of that is that again, there's there's the other, you know, if people are listening and they're in that population of like, well, I I don't ever go to the gym until I'm ready, right? And then it's like you have to you have to be ready to to be with that place too, of like there's no amount of like, well, I can't do this until I'm ready. Like you start and you keep showing up, um, you know, in that way. So there's there's both sides of that process.
SPEAKER_04:Well, supports of like a great trainer, right? Like, so I'm so great. As you talk, I'm like, I'm so grateful for people like you and the valiant team that it's like it, there's an almost an art to knowing when to push, when to, I mean, it it takes a great team, and you know, just like anything else, there's a spectrum of people doing this work. I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to be with you know some of the best. They're a valiant that can artfully help me navigate, know when to push, and when like and I I remember my therapist at Valiant said, Hey, I want you at some points to be dysregulated, uncomfortable, because this is the safest place for you to have that experience. Yep. Because then you can go back into group with the guys and you can talk about it. And he's like, I'm cool with you getting angry and mad and pushing you, like you said, like reasonably, like you're still doing the work. Yeah, um, but it's art, it's there's it's more, you know, jazz than classical. There's an art form to it, it sounds like with what you guys do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, there is, there is an art form to it. And um, you know, being able to understand that from a trauma-focused perspective, I think gives gives valiant and you know, people who are in that community a little bit more of a heads up on how to be, you know, in that place and um and work from that. And yeah, I I think that I I say to people all the time, right? Because time is money, right? And so people are spending their most valuable resource um coming to do treatment, whether it's you know, through 90 days of Valiant or you know, long-term work with me and my private practice or whatever it is, um, and they want to make the most out of it. Uh rightfully so, right? And so I tell people all the time, you can't speed up the healing process. It's just not possible, but you certainly can slow it down. You certainly can slow it down. So the speed at which kind of like I can't, if I have a huge laceration on my arm, I can't speed up the process of how quickly, like I can't put some ointment on it and bibbity bobbity boo, and in two days, right? That's gonna be better, right? Or I can't look at it for a period of time and it's just gonna like there is a there is a rhythm and a speed to all of the healing processes and all the growth processes in our body, right? The psyche is no different, the mind is no different, but I can certainly slow down that process. If I have a huge laceration here and I have a big piece of metal stuck in the middle of it, right? That is preventing that from healing up, it can look like I'm a really slow healer. When in reality, I I probably have a just fine healing process, but I have something that's gotten in the way of my healing process that's not allowing me. So then people try and like speed up the healing process when really the way that we like to talk about it, especially when it comes to an IFS process, is what's getting in the way? What's getting in the way of you healing? Not even what's the pain, but what's getting in the way of you even showing up to the gym and making this happen? What's getting in the way? Because that healing process will go if it's uninterrupted. Yeah. But what ends up happening is there's so many different things that get in the way of that healing that don't allow that process to take place at the pace that you're so go at whatever pace. Right. You can't speed it up, but you can certainly slow it down, right?
SPEAKER_04:Such a helpful way of looking at it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Avoidance, collapse. Um, one of the biggest things that I see that slows people down in their healing process overall is inner criticism. So, for a lot of people that have um addiction as part of their map or their inner constellation, inner criticism is a bear to work with. Um, so it will it won't let you show up because if you're in so much shame about going to the gym and the fact that you haven't gone to the gym and you know what a terrible, you know, overweight person you are, you can't even get to the gym. Like you can't even like start that process. So a lot of times what has to happen is work with that that avoidance first, right? And then if you can work with the avoidance, then the inner critic will start to come in and then numbing. So the three that I see that get in the way of the healing process are avoidance, inner criticism, and numbing. And then you can actually get to the work. Get to the work, and it's all work. It's all work. If you're showing up to those things, it's all work. Right. Setting the stage for a really good healing environment, doing that. So and that doesn't look like trauma work. I'm not talking about, you know, the neglect I experienced in my childhood when I'm talking about the numbing that is going on in my system that won't even let me show up to a session.
SPEAKER_04:Sure. Sure. Makes sense. All right. So we'll do something a little different today. This was your idea, by the way. So if it bombs, I'm blaming you.
SPEAKER_01:I'm just saying, you were saying really good stuff. That's why I was like, oh, record, because we can do series or whatever you want.
SPEAKER_04:I love it. No, it's perfect, it's beautiful. And we were texting about this episode, and I think it was your idea that said, Hey, why don't you just let me like do some IFS work with you? Like, would you be down for just kind of being a guinea pig for it? And I'm like, Yeah, man, it sounds like free therapy. Let's go. So I so you know, let's well, I was gonna say pretend, but let's not pretend. Let's do, let's, let's, let's dive into stuff. How, how would, you know, you and I are sitting here, we're getting ready to start. We haven't met yet, you know, from a therapeutic standpoint. I'm a new client, if you will. Where do you how do you how do we start this process?
SPEAKER_01:Um, it's great. I love that you're coming in uh from this process. And just to give it a little context, when you were like, what should we do? You know, I don't I don't think healing is that complicated, which is probably gonna get a lot of eye rolls from people, right? It's not, there's not like it's it's the hardest, easiest thing on the planet to do. The challenge becomes in repetition, right? So it's kind of like you don't read books about basketball. I mean, maybe you read one or two, but like how do you get really good at basketball?
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:You get really good, and it's not that complicated of a sport, right? Like you got a basket on one end, a basket on the other, five guys on the court, and you're trying to get the ball into the basket on the other side, right? Right. So there's nuances and things, but when we think about, I think healing and trauma recovery can be this like big black box on a certain level. And it's like a lot of it is just repetition, right? So letting people see the actual process and getting in the reps, I think is much cooler than reading a book about basketball. Like, let's get on the court and let's shoot some hoops and see what the deal is. So, how we start, this is not the process that I um do, and it's and it's slightly different than the way Valiant does it. But this is the way that I do it in my own, in my own personal journey, how I would start off a moment of self-reflection or start off wherever I'm at, or start off something like this, which won't be quite a therapy session, but it'll be, you know, give you a good sense of this. So whenever I think about um where to start, I always look at on a scale of one to ten, where would you rate your life satisfaction at right now? And I don't want you to think about it from uh just kind of like what does your gut say? 10 being the most satisfied you could ever imagine in your life, one being you could not be more unsatisfied with your life. Where would you rate yourself right now?
SPEAKER_04:I'm gonna guts a seven.
SPEAKER_01:Great, great. So I want you to notice the seven, and then I want you to think about what's getting in the way from it being a seven and a half for you. And I'm gonna go get my notebook, hold on, because I want to take some notes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So think about that while I get my notebook.
SPEAKER_04:All right. Do you want people as women doing this, do you want people to kind of be going through this as well? Or do you want them just like listening, observing how you're doing this? Like do you want them asking themselves the same question?
SPEAKER_01:Just listen, observe.
SPEAKER_04:Just listen and observe. I think they can just listen and observe, and um then if you know, then there's because it's gonna be nuanced based on the per like if a person's listening to this, but they're sitting across from you, if and if it is an art form, it's not a cookie cutter. You're asking them the same questions you're asking me. You're you're feeling it out as you're going through it. So it wouldn't be necessarily helpful for them to answer the same questions because you may pivot based on their answer. Like if someone said two.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I'll pivot what comes next. But like when I did my morning pages this morning, I was I write my life satisfaction score top. Like, what where am I at today? And what's getting in the way of that next thing? So it's a question I ask myself and I ask my clients often. So when I when I'm putting together a trauma-focused treatment plan, you can get into a lot of the weeds of like PHQ nines and this and that. And I do all of those things, like all the clinical assessments. But what really seems to focus in and get people moving in the direction they want to go to is where is their life satisfaction? And then what's getting in the way of the half step above it?
SPEAKER_04:That's such a great question.
SPEAKER_01:Um you said seven.
SPEAKER_04:I said seven, that was my gut response.
SPEAKER_01:What's getting in the way of it being a seven point five?
SPEAKER_04:I would say, and and you want me to not overthink this too much, right? Because I will. You just want me to okay. I think pace is what comes to mind.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, so tell me more.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I think there's a certain pace that I've been keeping that is in is in conflict with the way of recovery and the way of life that I'm wanting to live at a slower, more peaceful, more integrated and connected place. So I think there are there are changes that I'm currently making. So I feel like in this in-between right now. But I would say if I'm looking back over the last six months, not looking to the next you know, month or three months, I would say the the overall pace of life and business and raising kids and all that has is the tension and the gap from getting to where I want to be is feeling a little stuck. And I I show up as a seven on the Ennegram too, so being trapped or stuck is like super painful for me. So this idea of like I'm stuck and I have to do this certain thing to keep all the plates spinning, but it's in conflict with like what I've learned at Valiant and the way I want to live my life slower, more and more present.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yep. Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Um walk me through what you notice in your body as you're talking about this.
SPEAKER_04:I tend to feel a lot of tension and anxiety up in my shoulders and my neck area, like almost like my my head is being scrunched into my shoulders.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:You know, it's like I almost want to just like stretch out and you know, loosen my shoulders a little bit. When I start thinking about the stress and pressure and anxiety, I almost feel like I'm I'm balling up in my neck and shoulders area. I feel that in my body. I also feel a little in my chest, like a rising in my chest. And I think that's an anxiety. Well, I don't even diagnose it. That's up, that's for you. But I feel a rising up in up in my chest a little bit.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, good, good. So thinking about the pace of your life and that topic or subject, if you will, do you are there any fears or concerns with you bringing some more self-awareness to that area of your life right now?
SPEAKER_04:I don't think so.
SPEAKER_01:So it's kind of like a break check, right? Where it's like, oh, because sometimes what can come up, this one's a, you know, it's not like your greatest, you know, life trauma or anything, but sometimes when that's that the gate check, right? Of like, okay, um, so no fears or concerns. So what I would say then is that as we continue on in the session today, you're gonna have a couple options. So if we use the pace of your life as the target, um, or I would say in other forms, they call it the trigger. Some people don't like that word. Um, in IFS, we use an interesting term called a trailhead. So in IFS, the trailhead would be the pace of your life, right? So it's the thing right now that's activating for you that what we believe in trauma work, um, and you know, is quoted by lots of spiritual and mystical uh traditions, is that like I have on my wall there's this quote that says, Don't turn away from the cracks, that's where the light enters, right? So the invitation here is like there's all this like about pressure and keeping the plate spinning and anxiety and all this stuff. So instead of being like, well, I'm just gonna avoid that, or well, I'm just gonna numb out around that, or well, I'm gonna criticize myself because I'm feeling stressed, or well, I'm going to drink, or I'm gonna act out, or I'm gonna blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. We spin it on its head and we actually say, can we get your ear up to that a little bit more? We actually want to listen in and lean into this a little bit more, um, with some curiosity in the beginning to see what's what's up with this, right? So as we invite that first place of awareness, right? The awareness is that what's keeping you from a 7.5 is the pace of your life. The pace of your life right now feels pressure, anxiety, there's lots of plates spinning, and you'd like to have a more slower, integrated pace of life, is you stay with that, we're gonna get to know the different parts of you that are activated around that. It could be one, it could be multiple different parts. And one of the hacks that um is really cool when doing some more trauma-focused work is you can use your eyeballs like a volume dial. So when you are a heavy thinker, so I have lots of parts that like to think about things and stay up in my head. Um, and I've had to train myself over the years as a trauma survivor myself to be able to get into my body. Um, one of the things you can do to help you get out of your head and into your body is to close your eyes. Because when you take off a sense, right, of your five senses, when you take this off, you give the ability for your interoception. So your ability to sense yourself from the inside out, you give your ability for interoception to turn back on so you can get more into the felt sense of things, which is really important to do. And this is a way where you can build trust in your system, right? So I will guide you and say, okay, so when you think about the pace of your life, I want you to notice, close your eyes, go inside, if that feels right for you, and just see what else comes up when you focus on that. But there will be points where you're going to like open your eyes. Sometimes that's just out of habit. Sometimes I'm curious about the fact that opening your eyes is a way, um, it's a it's a holdover coping skill for dealing with things that are too much, right? So, like, oh, that's too much, and I'm gonna pop back into my head with my eyes back open.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, like I need a release valve, a pressure relief valve.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, you need a release valve or a distraction valve. If I can pop back up into my head, it's not bad. There's nothing bad about this. So if you're like, whoa, that feeling was a little bit too much, and I opened my eyes, right? I may ask you at different points of times, what do you notice? I noticed you opened your eyes. Tell me more about what that was. Or, oh, I, you know, a lot of times when people respond to things, like they'll go inside and then when they start talking, they'll open their eyes again. So it's not necessarily that, but you'll hear me cue a lot, or you'll see me model for the people that are listening in and not watching this. You'll see me model, like, okay, so when you go inside, I'll close my eyes and and sometimes that will guide you in. So I I let people know on the first time that we work together when they're like, Why are you closing this weird? Why are you closing my eyes? Like, so weird. Stop being weird, right? Um, and eventually, right, in an IFS session, you can spend in an in an 80-minute IFS session, you can spend 70 minutes with your eyes closed.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So the whole session is done with your eyes closed, you know, primarily on a certain level for some people.
SPEAKER_03:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:Other modalities, EMDR, if you're using the light bar, your eyes aren't closed at all on purpose, right? So for IFS in particular. So thinking about this, and this is the last I'll give you the um inner working spiel piece of it. Um, do you have any questions about that before we keep going?
SPEAKER_03:No, I don't.
SPEAKER_01:Have you heard that before? That your eyes can be like a volume knob?
SPEAKER_04:No, that's the first I've heard that.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, cool. Um, so taking a moment and thinking about that seven to seven and a half, that pace of your life. And again, you can close your eyes, go inside, noticing what that process is like of like, okay. The stress, the pressure, the anxiety. Gotta keep the plate spinning, not attention. And so as you're aware of that, you might notice when you bring your awareness to that activation, that it may get bigger. It may give you, it may make you think about other thoughts, or it may make you go to scenes in your life, or it may give you colors or other body sensations. So your only role is to be a journalist. So the only thing you need to do is describe whatever it is that you notice that's going on. So observation is the first place, right? So as you bring that awareness to the stretch and the pressure and the anxiety, keeping the plate spinning, what else do you know? What do you guys do you notice?
SPEAKER_04:Something that came up for me that's it's random, but I'm just gonna say it is I I remember um having this four-wheeler when I was a kid. I was probably like maybe 10 or 11. And my dad made a uh big lifestyle change. He owned a business that was successful and he decided to go into ministry, into full-time vocational church ministry. And without a conversation, um, things around the house started just kind of disappear. We had to cut back. Um and so the four wheeler kind of disappeared. And I I think maybe I I don't know, that just came up for me because there's there's this there's this part of me that has a A financial scarcity mindset. You know, of yeah, just yeah, around finances provision, providing for my family, you know, and then match that with me, you know, abruptly losing not just my job, my career, but my identity without without the ability to go back into that space. I had to kind of create a new career life and career path. And so there's just been a lot of fear and unknown around, you know, building this new life over the last three years. Um yeah, I think that's kind of what's come, but for whatever reason that that picture of the four-wheeler just kind of popped back up.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, good. So just noticing that, noticing that um I in in one of the things that's really important is that we make sure we're getting this from what your system is saying. So what I think we're hearing is that your system is saying, like, there's something tied to this burden of keeping all the plates spinning, this stressure, stress, pressure, anxiety, because of something tied to financial scarcity, right? There's something about that, that there's a connection that they want us to know. And we don't have to figure it out yet, but we just want to acknowledge. Oh, and the four-wheeler is a representation of that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, it's good. That feels connected for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Good, good. So um, yeah, internally you might start to get some of those signals of like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you you're getting it, right? You're getting it, good. So as you stay connected to this, keep the plates spinning, what else does it want you to know? The stress, the pressure, the anxiety, is there images that go along with it? Is there like what else is what else does it want you to know?
SPEAKER_04:I'm not I don't have any anything else clearly um coming to the surface. Um I do think there's there is a connection and I'll just say this clunky because I don't know how to say it, but there's a connection between um providing for my family is connected to the be going away for 90 days and some of the trauma that they went through. Um so there's almost this I'm gonna say the word proving, but like uh I need to provide I need to almost like what's what's the word where like um a pay pay a bat, like a oh um like penance, yeah, like uh like let me provide this better life, this whatever, because you know, you didn't deserve what happened to you. So in return, I'm going to, you know, provide a better way and a better life, and you know, almost like a payback.
SPEAKER_01:Um just let that part know you're getting that, that there's something tied to the word that keeps coming to mind, and I want you to check with your system to see if it writes is hustling. There's this like hustle aspect of this. So there's this part of you that is taking on this role of hustling because it says that somehow it hopes that if you can hustle, that you can ease it and and your system didn't say this, but like there's something about that tied to the impact that you had on your family by going away for 90 days. If you can hustle, somehow you're gonna make that right. Does that feel yeah?
SPEAKER_04:I think there's something that there's something there's something to that. And maybe even the word hustle feels close, but uh a little left of center. Like I think though um it's yeah, I think I think that's I think that's the best word I have for it. It's it's a lot about the quality of life for them, like being able to sustain almost like they they lost they lost enough, and I don't want them to lose anymore. So so yeah, the hustle part, and I do feel like that is like a I never really understood the workaholic side of things until when I'm working, is when in the moment I feel less anxiety. When I'm not working, anxiety comes up. Then I feel like if I go to work, as I'm although it's you know, I know that's not actually the cure, but that's when I feel less anxiety, is when I'm working. And so, but I think it's about not having to disappoint them with like when I came out of treatment, it was all about like, hey, I don't want their lifestyle to be disrupted or interrupted any more than it already has. So let me work really hard to make sure we can, you know, keep them, keep the kids, keep the family where they don't have to make any more sacrifices. We don't have to move from our house, we don't have to move from the city we live in, they don't have to move out of their schools. Like it's been just like keeping that baseline, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Totally, totally, totally. Yeah, good. So just letting your system know that you're getting that. Right? That there is uh an inner working here of this part, as we would say in IFS, it takes on this extreme role, right? It takes on this extreme role of whether you want to call it hustling or workaholism or keeping all the plates spinning or whatever it is, um as a protector in your system, right? So just letting it know that we're hearing that, that we're hearing that there is a it's trying to make sure that your family's not disappointed. It's trying to make sure that you don't experience the financial insecurity. It's trying to make sure maybe you're not trapped in some sort of way, right?
SPEAKER_04:No, keep keeping them from pain. I think that's a big one. Like I've noticed in the last three years, like even telling my kids no has been hard for me. Um because anything that I don't I just don't want to disappoint them or or cause, you know, quote unquote, any more pain or or disappointment.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Because if there was more pain or disappointment, what what does that bring up in you? If there's pain and disappointment, and I want you to do a gut check. We have to have a yellow light for this one of like, because this is kind of this is a little bit deeper of like if there's pain and disappointment in them, what does that mean about you?
SPEAKER_04:Well, it's it's it's for sure the shame of hold on, you know, the wanting to be a good dad, wanting to be a good husband, feeling like dropping the ball on that big time. And you know now it's you know yeah, I think it's just trying to keep them from experiencing more of that pain and the shame that comes up for me of like, man, I don't want to I I know that I, you know, cause a lot of trauma, a lot of hurt. Yeah, and I don't want to cause any more.
SPEAKER_03:Sure.
SPEAKER_04:Even if I in my rational brain, I know like that some of the decisions are for their own good, as parents have to make movements. Like you probably shouldn't have that, you know, Snickers bar at midnight.
SPEAKER_02:Um, right.
SPEAKER_04:You know, but it still feels like it's difficult for me to experience their like sadness because it feels like a direct reflection uh on my ability to provide for them emotionally, what they need.
SPEAKER_01:Right. Well, and I think the place that we have the opportunity, and men don't like this word traditionally, um, but I'm gonna use it anyway, because this is really oftentimes where a lot of the important work for men becomes is that we have an opportunity to be really kind and tender here. Because what ultimately is coming up for you is the fact that when your kids are disappointed, it's triggering your shame. So the part of you that feels like a disappointment, maybe, or the part of you that so it works really hard because we of course don't want your children to be upset or to harm them further, but really what this part is protecting in you is the part of you that may be holding on to that experience of you are a disappointment. You are bad, you are unlovable, you're a failure, whatever the you know, flavor is of that. So being kind to the fact that, like, oh, okay, so why don't you want that to happen? Well, because ultimately, if they're disappointed, the way that the trauma cycle is stuck in your system is that if they're disappointed, you're bad.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Right, right. Yeah, that that definitely resonates.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So just just being really kind to that, just noticing that. And as we're talking about this, you might notice that there's some body sensations that are attached to that. I know my shame in my system has a very distinct signature. Um just kind of checking in and seeing how the system is with even us talking about this right now. Are there fears or concerns with us even talking about the shame or the disappointment?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, I think just I mean, I noticed I'm definitely fighting to keep my like that pressure relief relief that you're talking about, like staying in it and not wanting to give myself uh an out and knowing that I can take it if I need it, but wanting to like stay in and you know, stay connected to it. I'm I definitely am noticing that, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What are the what are their fears or concerns if um about about being with that shame? Because we have kind of a common top three or four, and I wonder wonder if any of those fit for you. Like, what are the fears or concerns if you were to be with that shame?
SPEAKER_04:Well, I think a common one for me is the idea that if like if people really knew me, they wouldn't love me. I think that's uh pretty like common thread in my story.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Just growing up on growing up on stages, but also stages connected to morality.
SPEAKER_03:Sure, sure, sure.
SPEAKER_04:So it's like it's one thing to be a I don't know, to be a rock star and your whole shtick is I'm a badass and I don't care what people think. It's another thing to be like in the church world and you're on stages and propped up as an example. So it's like, oh, if I'm actually just like everyone else, and in some areas worse, some areas better, some areas worse. I mean, it's like, but if they do, I have to project this certain image for them to continue to you know see me as I I need to be seen to operate in this like leadership role or capacity. And that was even as a kid that started, and then it obviously went into a vocation and job and all that kind of stuff. But I think that's the threat is like from the from a young age thinking um it's more of a uh put on than the real me showing up or the or the me on the days that I wanted to get up on stage and be like, I'm just not feeling this at all today, or I don't even know if I believe this today or whatever, and feeling like, well, you can't say that get up and just you know do the do the thing, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right. So there's a there's a hesitation to even look at the the shame because the system is giving you the message that like if you look at it, then then other people will know, and then you're really screwed, because then people will really know the things that are there, and then you won't be, then you won't be lovable. And I I really appreciate you saying that because in our society and for men especially, this idea of being lovable, people think is like um a nice to have, not uh an actual survival threat. So our our top four survival threats are love, belonging, safety, and being seen. And so not being lovable, not having a place to belong is a survival threat as the same as not having food, water, or shelter.
SPEAKER_03:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:And so this idea that your system's like, no, no, no, no, no, don't go there. Don't look at the shame, don't be in that place. Because if you do, people will really see. Right. So we gotta avoid, we gotta not look at it, we gotta so just see if you can bring your awareness to this one that wants you to avoid. See if you can kind of shift your awareness to that.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I as you're talking, um, just making the connection with even with the kids, is a it's about, I think it's about that, like the fear of not being loved. Because I think going back to you know, uh part of the the process at Valiant, that's really to use Bernays Brown's term, I think it was her term, the brutal the brutal, the brutal and beautiful process of impact letters. So my kids all wrote me an impact letter when I was there, and that's part of the process. And so going from not knowing, especially with some of my kids, whether they were ever going to love or receive or accept me again to where I'm at today, which is you know, a really you know, amazing, honest connection with my kids, better than it's ever been before. But I think that's um I should say better, I think different than it's ever been before. I shouldn't uh I don't want to use better or worse language, but um, we're definitely in a really good spot. But I think that fear is if I disappoint them, that's the shame that comes up around them, them loving me. Like I want my kids to love me.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:Which I don't know that I've made that connection as clearly until now of like, man, I I don't want to disappoint them because will they love me if I make them upset?
SPEAKER_01:You know, yeah. And and I think that that's I mean, we all want our kids, you know. As a parent myself, we want our kids to love us, we want our spouses to love us, we want, we want to belong to a tribe that's necessary, right? Like we need to be in that pack. And so, you know, it's not a it's not a negotiable to be long, whether that's to your family, whether that's to so that desire is not that desire is not wrong. It's just it's kind of more the smoke, not the fire, right? So the bigger, the bigger thing is this part of you that still believes that you're unlovable, that you're a disappointment, that you're those types of things, right? And the way that you stay away from that is making sure your kids never ever feel disappointed, or that you work really hard, or that you drink a ton, or you look at porn, or you you know what I'm saying? Like whatever it is. But at the end of the day, right? Like codependent, you know, codependency and people pleasing is its own form of addiction, which is always a tricky one after you've gone through the substance addictions to be like, well, right, shoot, now I gotta do this thing. Dang, I thought I was gonna clear. I had 90 days of sobriety, man. It's like, well, you know, yeah, it's a trickier one.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:So I'm curious. Um, we've got a little, we got a little bit of a, we call it a triad um in IFS. So we have the part of you, if you imagine it kind of in one hand, we have the part of you that works really hard to keep the plates spinning. That's like, we really want to, we we've got it, we've got to keep it all going, we've got to do all these things because it's afraid if you don't keep all the plates go spinning in in a million miles an hour. What is it afraid will happen if it doesn't keep the plates spinning?
SPEAKER_04:Say that differently.
SPEAKER_01:So you have this part of you that's doing all this, uh keeping the plates spinning business, right? Stress, anxiety, pressure. What is it afraid? And you can just ask it directly. That's the fun thing about IFS. You can just ask these parts directly. Like, what is it afraid would happen if it stopped keeping all the plates spinning? Like if I had a magical potion that I could give you through the interwebs right now, and I was like, whatever you do, if you drink this potion, you can't keep the plates spinning, what is it afraid will happen?
SPEAKER_04:If the plates drop.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Or if they just that one can't keep them spinning anymore.
SPEAKER_04:It feels like if I'm understanding the question, I feel like if the plates were to stop spinning, well, a couple different things. It feels like uh exhale, like a piece. Like man, that's so nice not to keep all those plates spinning. But it also feels like an it f it feels like a non-reality because of the ripple effect of what that could cause. Um such as uh I think just you know the quality of life for the family, you know. Um that kind of stuff. Well, a further disruption of their lives, you know.
SPEAKER_01:And why does your system care about the quality of life or the further disruption?
SPEAKER_04:Um I think kind of on that deeper level we're talking about is it being directly connected to my self-worth and my ability to, you know, to provide for them and to all those things, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_04:Um what they think is the tension that I'm trying to manage, where it's like, well, what a what about loving and caring for myself? Like, why do I have to sentence myself to a life of anxiety for their happiness or for their peace or contentment? I'm like, do I also get to have peace and contentment? Or is it absolutely no?
SPEAKER_01:I love that. And you've just drawn, you know, it's it's not a like quite A to B, but it's like A to B to C to D to ultimately the fire, right? Which is this part of you is keeping all the plates spinning because ultimately it's afraid that if it doesn't, you are gonna be a disappointment. Right. And that you are gonna be unlovable. So it goes through the like kind of cul-de-sac of like, well, but the kids won't have their quality of life and they'll be a disappointed. It's like, well, why does your system care about that? Well, it cares about that because if they're disappointed, the the hook in is if they're disappointed, you're a disappointment, right? That's where the trauma shame piece gets brought into that. Um and that can we won't have time for that today, or maybe even on this podcast, but something to hold very tenderly of like that might go back decades of like how it came to be that if other people's are other people are disappointed in you, that means you're a disappointment. Because that's not necessarily true, right?
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah, that's definitely uh Yeah, so that's deep.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's a bit so you can just be like, whoa, okay, there's that guy, right?
SPEAKER_04:Well, no, I mean I think that came up a lot during during treatment for sure, because we we had several, you know, and I'll just mention this briefly. We had we had several instances as a kid that were very, very uh traumatic for me where you know they in the church world you call them church splits, but it were directly related in my mind, and again, this is after doing work on it, the performance of our family or the lack thereof caused people to leave. So it was if we performed better, then people wouldn't leave. So I adopted that mentality, like, man, it's a direct connection, or it's directly related to my performance, people's the way they perceive me, treat me, love me, or even like stay with me.
SPEAKER_01:Um a thousand percent.
SPEAKER_04:So yeah, that's a deep, that's a deep one for me.
SPEAKER_01:And I just I want to pause for a moment because I think that the people that are listening to this, you know, everybody comes in with their flavor of dysfunction or parts or whatever, whatever. Like at the end of the day, the the idea that we are only valuable if someone tells us so. Or that if somebody is disappointed in us, that means we are a disappointment, right? That is a universal pain that I am sure millions and millions and millions of people can resonate with. Of like, oh yeah, that's how in my mind I'm a very visual person. It's almost like an algebraic equation of like, oh, other people are disappointed equals I am a disappointment, right? Like that piece of that. So I just want to take a moment to appreciate the trust and the vulnerability to speak for that, because that right there, for somebody else to know that they're not the only person that feels that way, that that equation is funky in other people's systems, too. It's like, wow. And when you gut check that with like what you believe for other people or what you believe for your children, right? You would never be like, well, I'm disappointed in you, therefore you're a disappointment, right? You would be like, Right, right, well, I you know, I'm frustrated, but I still love you to pieces and I still think you're amazing. Right. So all these all these things, all these contracts that get signed in our system don't apply to anybody else when it comes to some of those things, right?
SPEAKER_03:So true. That's so true.
SPEAKER_01:So true, right? So I'm curious, I want to be mindful of time. Um, it's it's right at one o'clock. I can go for a few more minutes if you can go for a few more minutes.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, let's do a couple more minutes if you're good with that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. I am. Um so I want you to bring your awareness back to this big huge protector that keeps all the plates spinning.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:Right. That's really protecting the part of you that knows about feeling like a disappointment, feeling unlovable, shame, kind of that cluster together. And I want you to see how you're feeling toward this protector that keeps all the plates spinning. And you could feel critical, you could feel curious, you could feel close, far, um angry, kind. Like, how do you feel toward this protector in your system?
SPEAKER_04:So interestingly enough, the the the one uh the first thing that came up, because there's multiple here, um, is proud. And and I'm surprised by that, but that's what came up first because um uh what I've realized over the last three years, I've discovered like um gifts and abilities about myself that I didn't know existed. And on one hand, um I've been you know really successful in doing what I feel like I've been put on the planet to do. Um and that so I'm really proud of my like I'm proud that I've I've reestablished myself in a different space and have and have been able to do it and make it work. And you know, I'm proud that my kids haven't had to move or be uprooted, or you know, on one hand I'm like, I I did it, I'm doing it. Yeah, so I'm proud of that. And I think what's also true is there is almost some um is resentment the word I I don't know if it's resent, but there is a little bit like, well shit, I just created a monster that I have to do.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So my yeah, yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_04:Super proud, I'm doing it, I can do it. I proved to myself that I can do it, and this is great. And dang, like now I gotta keep this thing rolling, and I don't know that I want to try to sustain this beast that I've created, you know.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I could imagine too, knowing the little that you've shared, like hustling for your worthiness, this might not be the first go-around of this experience in your life, right? Of like there's there's been other times where that happens. And you know, at the end of the day, what where where this eventually leads is for you being able to be curious toward this part of you. Because in IFS, we don't get rid of any of our parts. It's actually not what we do. We're interested in liberating and integrating them because this part does have superpowers, right? It can it can do incredible things in your life, and it's the number one thing that's getting in the way of you being able to improve your life satisfaction right now, right? Yeah, so if it really, right, if we asked that part of you directly, guess what? What if there was a different way to ensure to ensure that Drew was worthy, but you didn't have to do it in this way, what would you like to do for him instead? Right? If you didn't have to ensure, if the worthiness was not on the line, right, if he was good regardless of his performance, right, what would you like to do for Drew instead? And oftentimes these parts, when they it's kind of like they're under a spell, right? Like, and when that spell, quote unquote, gets broken and it's like, oh, well, I don't have to protect this shame anymore, right? Or trying to make sure he doesn't feel this way, I actually have all this energy to go out and do all these other things, right?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, so true. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I can go and I get super creative or I get really clear. And oh yeah. So I'm I'm wondering, are you curious at all toward this part of you? Just that non-judgmental interest.
SPEAKER_04:Oh, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Okay. How do you feel that inner around your body? Because we're gonna talk about the last player on the board that's arguably the most player on the board.
SPEAKER_04:I think when I think about and maybe this doesn't answer the question, but I think when I think about the the future in general, I there's a lightness that comes for me. Like I I'm very I'm very um inspired and motivated by future potential change, like that. The idea of maintaining, sustaining is exhausting. The idea of changing, creating, charting new paths, that is invigorating for me. Um, and so I definitely get inspired by being like you're saying, being curious. And then, okay, so what does that what does that look like? And what do we need to do to make those changes? And so that doesn't that part doesn't scare me at all. I'm actually way more terrified of staying the same than I am of changing the future.
SPEAKER_01:Totally. So if I were to summarize what I heard you just say, curiosity is actually like a big engine for you. Oh, I'm so like we're just yeah, do you hear what you just like? Your tone of voice was like, Oh gosh, I love being curious of like what if, what if, what if, what if, right?
SPEAKER_04:Well, if I have if I have a leader, if someone comes to me and says, I've got an idea, like that's I tell my leaders all the time that's before I even know what it is, that's my favorite thing. I love like if Danine says, Hey, I got this idea, I almost want to stop them and be like, I'm so excited for what you're about to say. I don't even know what it is, but I I just love like something in me comes alive with new and you know, to probably do a fault, like that I need to be able to like you know, bring some consistency, but still, yeah. I'm I was gone on fall break last week, and when I'm out of the grind and I'm curious and I'm dreaming and I'm thinking, like, to me, I'm just like my my soul is alive for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Yes. What does it feel like in your body when your soul is alive?
SPEAKER_04:Uh I mean, definitely a lot a lot there a lot lighter, but there's just an there's There's an energy. Um there is a there is a hopefulness and um yeah there's there's um yeah I don't really even know the words beyond that, but there's there's just like uh I think it's the we were at Disney yesterday, and so there was a shirt that I wanted to buy and it was Tigger. It was a Tigger jersey. And to me, that's my seven-ness when I'm like in the flow and in the in the in the um yeah, in the in the flow of me being in in the exact spot I need to be at the right time doing the thing that I've been put on the planet to do and that that I know I'm good at. And when I'm doing those things, it's almost like a tigger energy. It's like uh I feel bouncy and lighter and all those, you know, as opposed to being heavy and weighed down.
SPEAKER_01:Totally, totally, totally. So that was a beautiful um description of what we would call self-energy in IFS.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:So this is the core of who you are. It is like the sun, right? So if the sun is still shining, you still have your self-energy. It cannot be created, it cannot be destroyed, but it can certainly be covered up, right? So in the middle of the night, we don't see the sun. It doesn't mean the sun is dead, just means that the earth is getting in the way of us being able to access it, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So when we think about, you know, wraps, you know, starting to make your way into the rest of your day today, one of the things that I think could be really interesting for you to hold in this like one to two percent kind of your edge here is the fact that that self-energy is who you really are. And anything that gets in the way of that are the things that we really look at, right? And so being able to link in that energy with this part of you, right? Because if we were to ask this part that works really hard how it feels toward your highest, wisest self, which is what you just described, what do you what's the sense you get? Does it even know that that exists? Everything you just described of like soul is alive, light, energy, hopefulness, flow. Is it aware of that energy inside you?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:How does it feel towards that being your highest wisest self? This part of you that does this, I have to keep the plate spinning.
SPEAKER_04:Um say that again, unpack that differently for me so I can understand.
SPEAKER_01:So um, we're getting a relationship between your highest wisest self and this protector that keeps the plate spinning.
SPEAKER_04:So the self-energy versus the protector manager over here.
SPEAKER_01:Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Yep.
SPEAKER_01:So my there's a little bit of self-energy on board toward this protector, and I was curious to kind of just test the waters and see if this protector can sense you at all. This highest wisest self that you just talked about.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, I mean, I I think the protector side is oh, I think it goes back to the the trapped stuff. Like I feel like because I feel it, like I've I'll feel it when like I know when I'm doing things, I'm like, oh, this is it. This is the like, you know, I think there's a sense of duty for the protector side, but even that I think that protector side is wanting to be freed of that. Yes, be like, very well said.
SPEAKER_01:And they all do. They don't, yeah, they don't like doing that. They're like, actually, I want to help you with that mission. Yeah, I want to I want to back you in this other thing. But again, if you don't address their biggest concern of the lovability and the belongingness and the other thing, they're like, they're like dutiful soldiers. They will not stand down until they go, oh, well, how is that gonna, you know, move forward?
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Good. So yeah, so just taking a moment, acknowledging, we'll just acknowledge the players that showed up for you today. The um, the big protector that keeps the plate spinning, that looks like workaholism, does the stress pressure thing. Um, and really uh at the end of the day, it's afraid that if it doesn't, that you won't be lovable, that you'll be a disappointment. We didn't really get to connect totally with the part of you that is also holding on to the experience that you're a disappointment. Right? Um, because one of the pieces that we'll get to later on potentially is the idea of like, what if that's not who you really are?
SPEAKER_03:Interesting.
SPEAKER_01:What if that's what if that is pain that is stuck in your system? Because who you are is that core self-energy. There is a part of you that does believe and will tell us, fight us tooth and nail that you're a disappointment, but that is part of the pain that is stuck in the system, right? So we didn't really directly interact, we kind of spoke around it, but directly interact with the part that knows about the shame and the disappointment. And then you also had a little, a little bit of time with a protector that kind of popped in a little bit with the avoidance, right? Of like, I don't really want to go there, kind of. I notice I want to, you know, pull my way out because if I really look at this, um, then people will know. And if people will know, there's no way out, right? So that protector that again is helping you avoid this so that you don't feel shame and disappointment, right? So you've got the avoidance on one side, the working really hard on the other side, and then at the bottom of the diamond um would be the pain of like I'm a disappointment, um, I am unlovable. And at the top of the diamond would be your highest wise self, right? This energy that you when you go back, I that's why I love recording things because you can go back and take this sound bite for yourself. Other people can take it of like, yeah, that's the energy of your self-energy. Not everybody's self-energy um has the same signature, right? As a seven, your self-energy is gonna have a certain signature, right? Of like this, like, oh, my soul's alive and I'm flowing and it's an engine, and that's who you really are, right? And then you start to form relationships between the self and the protectors, and then ultimately help that pain come up and out of the system so that you're able to use that highest wisest self to navigate um and live your life moving forward. So that was kind of a summary of today, thinking about from the very beginning, asking you from seven to seven and a half, what's what's getting in the way of that? You said the pace. So I'm curious, you know, this is another misconception. People think again, they change overnight. Um the cognitive neuroscience tells us that we can really only tolerate about two or three percent outside of our current operating system. So, what's the like one or two percent that you want to take with you, or a something you want to practice between now and the next time that we meet? And it doesn't have to be huge. Again, if it's more than three percent, your system will kick it out. So it could be like, I want to practice sensing when that highest wise self is there, just noticing it. I want to notice the the burden of like, oh yeah, that that part that's working so hard is ultimately trying to help me feel lovable. Oh, I want to notice, you know, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_04:I think that's it. I think it I think I love to be able to notice, specifically with my family, when I'm struggling to make a decision that I feel like that is gonna make them disappointed and how that's connected to my um self-worth and love, you know, self-love and all that. Um I think that would be a good exercise. Um, I mean, all the other ones you mentioned are great too. I I like all I think there's awareness around all that is really huge for me. You know, awareness around, you know, when I'm feeling energy, what's giving me life, what's draining me, what's making me feel lonely and you know, apathetic and unmotivated and all those things, you know. Um but I do think having one of the big things that stands in in the way of change towards, you know, uh life satisfaction is the disappointment of family.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_04:And so noticing, hey, it's you know, yeah, I think that would be good.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and you you said it so brilliantly of like it's just that noticing, right? It's that non-judgmental. So even if you notice that you're like, well, can't say no, won't happen, it's not gonna happen, which means that I just signed myself up for another ten thousand dollars of gymnastics lessons and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Like whatever. Even if you can't, even if the like idealized of like I come in and I know myself worth and I set boundaries for our family that are in our best interest, like not today, like just notice.
SPEAKER_02:Notice, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Just notice what is happening because you can't get anywhere until you start to notice, until you can go inside and notice. Then we get to non-judgmental noticing, because the first thing you're gonna do is be like, Well, shit, I did the thing again, I caved and I didn't want to, and I blah blah blah. That's fine, but just noticing that pattern of like, oh, the kids might be disappointed, and I I can I can fill in the blank of how this is gonna go, and I'm gonna notice it and I'm gonna write it down. So, one of the things that I would encourage you to do is I just need you to get that out of your system, up and out. So it can be a bullet journal, it doesn't, it can be a voice note on your phone, it can be whatever it is, but starting to track that trail ahead of when I need to say no to my family or say no to my kids or whatever it is, this is what happened, right? Because you're gonna want to track your wins, and it's really hard to do that when you don't track anything. Um so I would encourage you to do that. Is there anything else that feels important to speak for before I have you open your eyes and transition into the rest of your week?
SPEAKER_04:I don't think so. I feel like we cover a lot of ground.
SPEAKER_01:Okay.
SPEAKER_04:Um good, it's great, super helpful.
SPEAKER_01:Good. Well, a lot of appreciation from my system to yours is uh I have uh parts that know how to work really hard and hustle for my worthiness and parts that avoid and parts that escape and parts that know about shame and not being lovable unless, right? Um, so I really appreciated your your trust and your vulnerability with that today. And yeah, so I don't take it, I don't take it lightly when people it's always an honor to hold space for for people because it's the hardest, easiest work on the planet in some ways, and and I don't take that lightly.
SPEAKER_04:Well thanks, appreciate you sharing that with me.
SPEAKER_01:Absolutely, absolutely. So whenever you're ready, you can gently blink, open your eyes, come back into the rest of your week, your day.
SPEAKER_04:That was awesome. That was that was really um uh powerful. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Great, sometimes they are.
SPEAKER_04:Yeah, or have someone get done and be like, oh, that didn't do anything for me. That sucked.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, sometimes. In fact, I had a session that I did with myself the other day where I I was like 50 minutes in and I just had to sit with this protector for 50 minutes. And it was like, nope, I'm not moving. And that's where you know, the realistic of like how this process works of like your system's, you know, moldy, flexi, bendy, you're on camera, you got these things. And so, you know, we just like bop right to the shame and blah, blah, blah. And that's when you really get into building trust in your system and it really does know that if it says no, it you stop and you listen. Like, I have sat for long periods of time with just a protector that wants to be with us for the whole session of like, no, you're not going anywhere at all. Like, you need to sit, like I had one that was face down in the dirt that was like, you just need to come lay with me in the dirt. Wow, you're not going anywhere, and it was months. Every time I checked in, it was the same thing. And I was like, I had parts that were like, I know I want to move forward. And it's like, nope, I'm upset. And it ultimately ended up being hugely impactful.
SPEAKER_04:But let me ask you this before I let you go. I want to get one quick thing. I know I've taken too much of your time, and I'm really grateful for it. Um, for someone that's listening or watching this right now who just kind of went through that whole experience and like, man, I want to do that. Or I like give us some application, some next step. Like, you know, is this something? So we do this kind of work at Valiant, you do this kind of work privately.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_04:Um, so and we can kind of link to that. Again, I know you didn't come on, this wasn't meant to be a commercial. This was just, but I also want to I imagine if I was listening or watching, I would probably say, Man, I would really love someone to guide me through something similar to that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, actually.
SPEAKER_04:What are some practical next steps?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. So I would say um, if you're interested, if this way of of doing work is interesting for you, um, there is a website. So the IFS Institute is the only place that certifies people in this modality. So there's a lot of people on like psychology today and blah, blah, blah, that are like, oh yeah, I do IFS work, but they've never actually been formally trained in it. And it's it is definitely important to be formally trained if you want to work this way. So the IFS Institute is where the directory is of all the IFS therapists in your state. Um, and I will tell you right now that most of the people that are gonna log on right now are gonna be wildly frustrated because there is a huge, huge lack of IFS-trained professionals in everywhere, like the United States.
SPEAKER_04:So the movement has kind of grown bigger than the people that have been trained for it by a hundredfold.
SPEAKER_01:And so now you get all these like knockoff things that people are doing because they're tired of waiting for, and it's like, ah, and I'm not a purist, but I've seen the knockoffs, and it's like eating a plastic banana. Like it doesn't really like do the thing for you, right? Right. So the IFS Institute, um, some some of them accept insurance, some of them don't. Um, there's some decent podcasts and stuff out there, but the best way is to just get in with an IFS therapist if you can find one. It's a very vegan, it's like trying to find a needle in a haystack right now. Um so there's there's a lot of other people that are out there doing good work. There's, but if you if you Google that, there's some apps out there. I happen to know of one that you know I created that is in that area. But I would say it you definitely want somebody to walk you through this process if possible. Um, and if that's not available, then Richard Schwartz is the the creator of this model. He's written a lot of books. There's a lot of self help, like I said, other uh products out there that are that are helpful. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_04:Awesome. Sarah, thank you so much. It's been awesome.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
