Valiant Living Podcast
Welcome to the Valiant Living Podcast where we educate, encourage, and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom.
Valiant Living has been restoring lives and families since 2017 by providing multiple levels of care for men and their families. Fully accredited by The Joint Commission, Valiant Living has earned a national reputation as a premier treatment program, offering IOP, PHP, and recovery housing programs for men ages 26 and older. Founder and CEO MIchael Dinneen is a nationally recognized therapeutic expert, speaker, and thought leader in the behavioral health field.
On this podcast you’ll hear from the Valiant team as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at (720)-756-7941 or email admissions@valiantliving.com We’d love to have a conversation with you!
Valiant Living Podcast
Rebuilding Bridges: Chris H's 4-Year Sobriety Journey
"I'll have four years in June," Chris tells us, a milestone that seemed impossible when he was consuming 1.75 liters of alcohol daily and taking shots before even getting in the shower for work. His journey through addiction's darkest depths—including two stays in intensive care on life support—to lasting recovery offers both hope and unflinching honesty about the transformation process.
The turning point came during what Chris describes as a "fourth dimension" experience, where he felt himself floating above his body while someone else made the call for help. This supernatural moment led him to detox and eventually to Valiant Recovery, where despite initial resistance, he made a critical decision: "You're all in or you're all out." His full commitment to the program became the foundation for his recovery journey.
What makes Chris's story particularly valuable is his candor about recovery's ongoing challenges. While sobriety brought profound gifts—rebuilding his marriage, purchasing his first home at 52, career advancement, and a spiritual connection—he doesn't sugarcoat the difficulties. "The drink for me is easy. It's all the other stuff that's still hard," he admits, explaining how learning to process emotions without numbing them remains challenging even years into recovery.
Chris emphasizes the vital importance of community, stating "it's absolutely impossible to do any of this by yourself." The relationships formed during treatment have become lifelong connections—people who understand his experience and provide support when needed. His recovery program has evolved over time, adapting to different seasons of life while maintaining sobriety as his top priority.
For those new in recovery, Chris offers wisdom earned through experience: trust the process, embrace discomfort, establish boundaries, give yourself and others grace, and remember that progress matters more than perfection. His story demonstrates that while the recovery journey isn't easy, the ability to face life's challenges sober brings a sense of accomplishment unlike any other.
Reach out to someone who understands when struggling. As Chris says, "If you put three or four [bad days] together, you better be calling somebody."
We like from time to time to bring in some alumni just to hear how they're doing and hear their story and hopefully brings hope and inspiration and all that stuff. And Pete was like, well, I'm going to have Chris in. I thought it was a great idea and I'm excited because guys in this room hopefully will be sharing their story and part of the podcast if they want to be in part of sharing the story with with these guys. So it's a great full circle moment. So, chris, how so? How long have you been sober so far?
Speaker 2:I'll have four years in June, June 21st.
Speaker 1:I'll have four years. It's awesome, man. Congratulations. It's a big deal. Take us back, man. Start at the beginning. What was life like for you before getting sober?
Speaker 2:It's kind of hard to go back because it's over a span of 50 years. You know, when I came in here I was two months. I was a month, month and a half away from my 50th birthday. I just turned 50 when I came in here and you know, I can remember back in my 20s and my 30s and I drank and I did a lot of cocaine and I didn't do it. I mean, I smoked a little weed and and then I got to the point in my life where I was hurting myself. You know, working I was hurting my back. I had my first back surgery when I was 33. So there was always been pain pills in and out of my life and alcohol was constant and I drank a lot of alcohol, a lot. Towards the end I was drinking 1.75 and a half every day. I mean it was not to be surprised if I did 10 shots before I got in the shower, did three more before I left for work and drank coffee on the way.
Speaker 1:It was a lot, I think that definitely qualifies you as a having an issue.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know and I yeah, I guess I really didn't. I mean, I always kind of knew that I had a problem, but, um, in 2018, I had a second back surgery, a second and a third, and I was on some pretty high painkillers and I'd been on them for probably 10 years and there would be months where I would run out and then, well, I got to go to work, so I just have to suffer through the DTs and then I would try not to drink at the same time, and I ended up in the emergency room twice. He was talking about his medical and I was actually in intensive care for a week. Each time. Wow, on life support, all my organs were shutting down. My body was pretty much said fuck you, we're out of here. You've used this, all you got, you got no more. Somehow, they brought me back each time and, um, it got to the point and, uh, probably three weeks before I got here, it was.
Speaker 2:It was pretty serious. At home I was, I was doing probably three or four day benders every week, so I would sober up one or two days and then I'd just do it again. I was missing work. My wife was good and pissed off and left. I don't even know how long she'd been gone. To be perfectly honest with you, I know that she left and we were communicating over text or short phone calls, but I don't even know how long she'd been gone. I still can't tell you to this day. Wow, she could probably tell me. I have never asked.
Speaker 2:I called her one afternoon and said hey, I need help. She's like tough shit, I can't help you. I don't know what to do for you. I called my daughter, I called my son-in-law and I said I need help. I don't know what to do. This can't continue. And I don't know how much you guys are into AA, but they talk about a fourth dimension and I've been to that fourth dimension twice. The first time is when I made that call to my daughter. Because I didn't make that call, I absolutely didn't. I don't remember making that call. What I do remember from it I was floating above the bed looking down on myself, fucking hammered, and somebody else was talking is that what?
Speaker 1:sorry to interrupt, but for those of us that are newer days, I what the fourth dimension is. I'm not.
Speaker 2:I don't. I don't really know what the actual definition of the fourth dimension is.
Speaker 1:That's what I think.
Speaker 2:It is Like an out of body, I think it's an out of body and, out of my experience, a different level of something Gotcha. What that is, I don't really know. I don't know. That's what it was for me. Some of the older guys in AA kind of agree with it. Some of them don't, but it works for me and I understand it. So that's kind of the way that.
Speaker 3:I did it.
Speaker 2:So within three hours I was in a detox in Aurora, had no idea how I got there. I drank. I'd been drinking for three days. I drank a case of beer before we left. I got to the detox, I blew a 0.36. And as far as I left, I got to the detox, I blew a 0.36. And as far as I know, I still hold the record. I'm pretty proud of that. Um, so that's how it. And then I I sobered up a couple of days and then I remember Joe and I don't remember who the other one was came in there and started talking to me about Valiant, and I was in such a weird place that I just thought that you went for detox. This is what I was supposed to do. Somebody came in and told me where I was going. I got in the van and I left. I didn't know. I had a choice. You didn't really know there was another option. No, I didn't. I didn't know that I was free to leave. I didn't know any of that. Probably for the best, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:The way things turned out absolutely you may not have taken the option. Yeah absolutely. So that started my valiant journey. What were some of your? I know?
Speaker 2:we're kind of just jumping in deep here, but what were some of your fears starting to come into? The funny part about it is I didn't really know what my fears were until I got in here Really and started discussing some of what was going on in here and what was going on in here.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean even just your fears about going into treatment, or were you ready at that point? I was ready.
Speaker 2:You know, my wife had been telling me because we'd been having several conversations, because you know, when you're hammered, 95% of the time you're going to have some conversations. You know, and and I was always looking for a counselor, I was always looking for a place to go get help. How can I what? Where can I go? And I think, looking back on it now, I was looking for you guys. I needed a community, a community that understood me and how I was and how I thought, and that I could understand them and we could all have a similar conversation. And I got more out of that than I did anything else, because I could talk to somebody that knew how I felt. Was that the first?
Speaker 2:time you felt like you kind of like found your people Absolutely Like this is my tribe here you know, and that's what me and my wife say she's like you got your people Go talk, found your people Absolutely Like. This is my tribe here. You know, and that's what me and my wife say she's like you got your people Go talk to your people. Yeah, you know, go go, go, go do your thing. And it didn't click for me for a while no-transcript.
Speaker 1:The connection you know and and I found that to be be true as well I mean, yeah, the, the therapy and all the other stuff, that's that has stuck with me and I actually remembered more than what I thought I was, especially those early days when you're pretty dysregulated, you're just trying to survive. You wonder how much of this is actually sticking, and it is. It's definitely getting planted in there, but, man, it's the relationships and the friendships that are.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, for sure, pete and I will be life friends forever. We just will. We don't talk every day, we don't talk every month, but he'll call. I'll call, he'll ask me to be here. I will come. Whenever this man asked me to be here, he will do the same thing for me. We have another guy that was in our class, chuck, is the same way. If we call, he'll be there. So it's the relationships that you build in here, because you can't do it by yourself. It's absolutely impossible to do any of this by yourself, so can't do it by yourself.
Speaker 1:It's it's absolutely impossible to do any of this by yourself. So, true, man, what were some of the things that in the early days if you can remember being in Valiant that helped you stay grounded or connected? Were there any tools that that you use in those, because those first couple of days to weeks sometimes longer are can be pretty brutal?
Speaker 2:I remember the first two weeks pretty clearly. I remember the first two weeks pretty clearly. I was pissed off. I didn't want to be here. I couldn't figure out why I was here. And I was in a room with six guys. We're all sobbing, we're all crying, we're all bitching, we're all complaining. I'm thinking, fucking, suck it up. And then I don't remember what, I don't remember what triggered it, but I'd been here I don't know six or seven days, and that eighth and ninth day I was like, oh, wait a minute. First and foremost, you're here to help yourself. Secondly, you're paying a lot of money to be here. So I'm going to get everything out of this fucking thing. Feel I can get, yeah, everything. And from that day thing I can get everything. And from that day forward I participated in everything. I spoke first, I spoke last.
Speaker 2:Every exercise I was doing, me and Pete were up at 5 o'clock in the morning working on our books, going to every meeting we could go to. We were doing whatever was asked of us. We did it, and to the best of our ability. We didn't bullshit anybody, we just did it. And, and to the best of our ability. We didn't bullshit anybody, we just did it and you know, I think that helped me get through Went all in. Absolutely, you have to make a choice. You have to go. You're all in or you're all out. You can't play with it the first couple, three, four weeks. Yeah, I think you can play with it a little bit, but at some point you have to make a commitment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, a close friend alumni of the program, john W, told me that early on, I think he saw that I was struggling and he kind of pulled me aside and he said, hey, man, the quicker you can surrender, absolutely, I think he just saw me trying to control and all these different things, because early for me and I don't know if you're this way, but I was seeing what was wrong with everybody in the house, what was wrong with the program. You know I could run it better, all this stuff and and you know, there probably was some truth to some of that. But at that point I'm just looking for something, you know, and he was like man, you just gotta, you just gotta surrender, cause that's actually part of the therapy is. You know, sometimes things happen where you're triggered and you have to learn how to deal and cope.
Speaker 2:Well, and I remember a session with Jill, because Jill was my therapist and she's a lot nicer now than she was then, I can assure you.
Speaker 1:I had been here long enough. She's softened up a little bit.
Speaker 2:Is that what?
Speaker 2:you're starting to say A little bit Interesting. I'd been here for a while and I had kind of picked up on some of the language, some of the therapy speak, and we would go and have our sessions and we'd banner back and forth and we'd talk about a few things and then one day she just looked at me and she says Are you done? We've been doing this bullshit for I don't know how many days here. Are you done? Wow, can we get to what we came here to do? And right then it was here. You go, flip the switch for you. If you want it, I'll give it to you because I don't want it anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm curious, looking back. I mean, so it's been three years, four years. When you look back on your experience here and I'm I don't care about making a valiant commercial, that's not why I'm asking this, but I'm just curious. Having some distance, what are some of the things that you remember? Or the moments you talked, relationships to get that? But, um, you know, if you're talking to someone looking to come into the program now that you've been out for a while, I haven't really put a lot of thought to that, but I was thinking.
Speaker 2:Once another guy was talking about looking on the internet and the biggest thing that I would say is don't start with the A's and B's. It goes down to the lower in the alphabet, Because the deeper that you go, the better centers you're going to find. With my Valiant experience, I can't think, my valiant experience, I can't think of a better experience in my life other than my son being born and then me coming here was probably the two best things in my life that have ever, the best things that have ever happened to me ever. Yeah, I mean just just the way that the staff was the programming, that the house guys. I mean I had more therapy with Ty in the middle of the night than I than I think I did in Jill's office most of the time. I mean I had more therapy with Ty in the middle of the night than I think I did in Jill's office most of the time.
Speaker 2:I mean that guy saved my life. He absolutely saved my life. There's three people in this world that saved my life my daughter, number one. My wife is second and Ty is third. Wow, and they're all tied number one Because there's some good people here, Really good people here. Pete's living proof. This is a great guy. All he wants to do is help people. That's all he wants to do is help, if you let him.
Speaker 1:That's good. That's good to hear. I want to pivot to kind of life now. What's life in recovery look like for you now? What is your program looking?
Speaker 2:like. Well, as you and I were talking earlier, my program in the first couple probably two and a half years was pretty intense. I went to three or four meetings a week. I was in a book study every week. I did the steps. I did the 12 steps of Alcoholics Anonymous three times in two and a half years I started to travel for work. I was looking for meetings in the towns that I was in, towns that I could drive to. Obviously, me and my wife talk sobriety a lot. I think she's figured out keys to me that knows what keeps me a little bit more centered and reminds me of things that I need to be working on.
Speaker 1:So sorry to interrupt you, but I'm just drawing my own conclusion here. She left, but came back.
Speaker 2:Actually, when I left Valiant yes, she did Okay when I left Valiant and I was here for 112 days, and when I left and I moved back home, my first immediate opinion was that I probably should be moving out, not moving in, and I had left a pretty wide destruction path. When I came in here, when I left, I wasn't for sure that I was going to have a wife. I wasn't for sure that I was going to have my two sons, my daughter, my grandchildren I think they would be there at some point in my life but I didn't know what that was going to be. I knew that it was going to be very hard, but at that point I had accepted that.
Speaker 2:I like to use the word pay for the sins of the past. I remember telling Jill at one of our sessions that it takes a long time to reconstruct bridges that you've burned and for people to trust you and to take you at face value when you had so many years where you weren't Right. And just because you went and got help doesn't give you a free ticket and a free pass. It just doesn't. And I was willing to accept whatever consequences I had coming, and thankfully, me and my wife were. I'm not bullshitting anybody. The first eight months was probably one of the hardest points of our marriage. She didn't know who I was, I didn't know who she was. I probably didn't start figuring out who I was until I'd been probably two years sober, wow, and trying to figure out how I can get back into life and what I'm supposed to be and what I'm not supposed to be and who do I want to be.
Speaker 1:It's oddly comforting for me to hear you say that. Um, cause, I think I have an expectation that, okay, I'm going to go and get help, and now I got to show up in the world better, I won't even say fix, but just like you know, and even a few years, you know, coming up on three years out for me, man, I relate to what you're saying as far as it taken, it's taken time, like it's not like I, you know, cause, especially, I think, when I went home I wanted to prove to everybody that I was changed and that even started to feel like pressure.
Speaker 2:It was a ton of pressure you know, yeah, it was a ton about that for a minute of pressure. You know, yeah, it was a ton of pressure. Talk about that for a minute. Yeah, you know, because I, you know there's a few people in here that know that we're in some of my. I came to a PHP class about a year ago and some of you guys still remember me.
Speaker 2:I'm a pretty intense person. I'm wide open, I'm passionate, and to be that way, intoxicated in an addiction, and then try to reel that back and try to be this person that you want to be, is really tough and I'm still allowed to be that wide open, vocal guy, but I don't have to do it in a way to where it's. I don't know what the right word is. I don't want to say abusive, but it's not as intense, it's not as serious. I can still get my points across without being an asshole. I can still be firm, but I can still be flexible. It's a really hard path and boundaries are still a big deal for me. Even now, almost four years later, I'm still trying to figure out the work, balance, life.
Speaker 2:You know and and when and when I'm in something, I'm in it, and that's the way I was in addiction. That's the way I'm in, everything you know. So to try to dial some of that back is is is pretty tough and it's, and the pressure is immense because the people that you hung out with, your family, they all expect a certain you. I still have a lot of trouble in social like this. For me not to be standing here with a cold beer or a shot of whiskey is still uncomfortable to me, because this isn't what I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's almost like a safety blanket for you in some ways. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And even just family events. Yeah, it's almost like a safety blanket for you in some ways. Yeah, you know, and even just family events yeah. You know, I had all my grandkids over and my daughter and my son-in-law and everybody's there and it's chaos and I'm just like shit. It's a great place to be. I'm very thankful that I'm there and I love everything that's going on, but sometimes I just don't know how to act in those situations.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know it's tough, it's still tough, so I took us down a side trail there. But you're talking about early on going to meetings, going to different cities and finding the meetings and all that kind of stuff, and so, yeah, what's that like now for you?
Speaker 2:Well, like we were talking earlier. I got to a point where I was going through the steps a fourth time and sorry I might sneeze, but I just got to step four, excuse me. I got to step four and we were in this book study and everybody's going around the table. Yeah, I'm almost there. I'm almost there. And they got to me and I'm like I haven't done a fucking thing. Well, the first week everybody kind of lets that pass. You know, everybody's busy, we're just trying to figure it out. And then it got to be like three weeks in and I'm like I still haven't done anything and they're like why don't you want to do it? I'm like I just don't want to do the work, I just don't want to do it. I think I was fried and I was getting ready to leave.
Speaker 2:We were done and one of the old guys in there and his name is Jonathan and he's probably he's not even my sponsor, but he's a great guy and he's been sober for 50 some years, wow and he just pulled me aside and goes what's going on with you? And I said, jonathan, I don't know. I just I just don't want to do this. And he goes yeah, I don't blame you. I've watched you in here for almost three years killing yourself on this. It's okay to take a break. It's okay we're not going anywhere. We will be here. Whenever you want to come back, we will be here. Take a break, go spend some time with your family, enjoy your grandkids, hang out with your sons, do something different on a Wednesday night.
Speaker 2:And I really took what he said to heart and I don't want to say that I walked away from it, but I definitely haven't been back into it as heavy as I was. I still catch a meeting here or there. I still talk to my sponsor. Like I said, I drive a lot, so I listen to AA meetings on a podcast Just different stuff, just to keep my mind engaged in it. Because I'm one of those guys that I have to wake up every morning and think about my sobriety and I have to go to bed every night thinking about my sobriety Because it's important to me. It's tied for number one with everything in my life. It's my sobriety. I'm not going back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember them telling us here that, as time goes on, your program shifts and adjusts and you change, you can adapt, you can revisit the plan that you have. And you know, I love, I love to hear that you're still locked in, you're just willing to evaluate. Hey, this is what I need for today, for this, this season of my life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, because there's, because, as much as my sobriety means to me, there's other things that mean to me a lot to me as well, yeah, so I have to learn and I and I think that I use a lot of that as ways not to engage with the things that I didn't like or the things that I did have a hard time with, and I thought that if I continued to go to the meetings, that I would be able to work on those and that I would get better at it, and you only get better at it if you keep doing it. The biggest thing I got from AA is it's progress, not perfection. As long as you're trying every day, that's all that matters. You're giving 110% of what you got every day you're winning.
Speaker 2:You're straight winning.
Speaker 1:That's good. What are some of the unexpected gifts that you have received or you didn't see coming in these last few years of sobriety?
Speaker 2:Wow, there's been a lot. I think that the biggest one is my marriage. I think that being able to get that back on track and being at the place that we are now as a couple is awesome. I mean, we're empty nesters. Our boys have moved out, it's just her and I and the dogs, and we can sit and talk for hours now about relatively nothing or relatively everything, but it's just nice to be able to sit down with your wife and just have a conversation about life or how your day was, or what do you think about this, or what should we do over here, right? The other thing is is through my wife's hard work, we were able to purchase our first house In 52 years. I never had a house. I always rented. I had an apartment, we lived in her rental house and in 2023, we purchased a house in Bailey and we live on an acre and we just that's just our happy place. That's where we want to be. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:I was able to do some things in my career that, if I was still drinking, there's no way in my career that I would be able to do some of the things that I'm doing today. You know not to really brag on things. But I'm trying to negotiate a $20 million deal right now and the drunk, hungover Chris couldn't negotiate a $50 deal, you know, yeah, so I mean, I've had an opportunity to pair up with somebody that's into, wants to do some of the things that I want to do, and it's it's, it's coming together and it's just. It's just having a clear mind and being focused and locked into what you're trying to do, because if you, if you're looking for the promises, you're never going to find them, but if, like I said, if you're in 110% every day of what you have, they just come, you don't even see them coming, they just come every day. And it's little things, it's big things, it's. You know I get to get up every morning and put my feet on the floor instead of oh God, it's thank you.
Speaker 2:God, I hell yeah, let's go yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that. What would you say and I'm going to open it up to you guys for for questions I want you to hit him with some of the things you're thinking of right now. But, um, for those of us guys that are early on, even a couple of weeks, what kind of I won't say? We don't give each other advice, but feedback, challenge, encouragement.
Speaker 2:What would you, or even what would you go back and tell yourself, you know, when you were early on, oh, if I had to go back, I would definitely tell myself to trust the process, because it is such a process to get you from detox, to get you out the door, and there's so much that happens in between that you don't understand and it doesn't make sense to you. And why am I doing this? But if you trust the process and you follow it to the best of your ability, two, three years in, four years in, I'm still, oh, oh, shit, yeah, I yo, yeah, I need to be doing this. This is where I need to focus today. This is where I'm at today. You know, we, we big thing around here is check-ins, hated check-ins. You know, I just sat here yesterday for eight hours. You know exactly how the fuck I'm doing, but now I do a check-in with myself every day.
Speaker 2:Hey, what are you feeling? What do you think about this? What's going on here? What can you do different that you didn't succeed with yesterday? How can you make your day better than it was yesterday? How do you talk to somebody? How do you? I probably apologize more the next day than anybody. That I know, because I'm genuinely an asshole and I, if I, if I make a mistake or if I jump somebody wrong, then I go to them the next day and I say hey look, man, I was out of line, I apologize to you. I just, I just. I don't want people to think that that's the guy I am, because before I never would apologize to you, I just would have went on with my life. I never thought twice about it. But just to have the thought and the balls to go up and apologize to somebody is a great thing to me.
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to. It's funny because that might be the answer to my next question, cause I was just curious about what is one thing you've discovered about yourself in recovery that you're the most proud of in recovery that you're the most proud of, which is probably tough, like that's a tough question. If someone asked me that, I don't know how to answer it, but I'm curious for you. And then I want to hear you guys' questions.
Speaker 2:I think that. I think it's gratitude. I'm very thankful to you guys, I'm thankful to this place, I'm thankful every day I'm thankful for something new.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that wasn't something you had before.
Speaker 2:No, absolutely not, Because I was one of those guys that complained about every single thing, every single thing. And it was one of those moments I had with a phone call with my mom and she was bitching about doing taxes and having to do this and having to do that. And I said, mom, every time we sit down and do something, we always know there's going to be 10 extra steps. So you can either do a 10, 10, the 10 extra steps that you're going to do, you can do them pissed off and make a miserable as hell, or you can just sit there and shut up and do them. Either way, you're going to do them. So why do you want to do a miserable, right? So it's just. It's just things like that and, like I said, being grateful for everything that I have, because when I walked in here I wasn't real sure what I had. I didn't have a lot. I had a 14-year-old son that I said well, go live with your sister, dad's going to treatment, don't know when I'm coming home and don't know if I got a house to come home to, but good luck, she had a stay in my life, wow. But I rebuilt that relationship. I talk to my son. Every day I talk to both of my sons. You know it's just being grateful for what you got.
Speaker 2:And the other thing is I don't know how you guys are, but they talk about your higher power, mine's God. I talk to God every single day. I finally have a relationship with God. I don't ask for things for me, I ask for things for others. I finally think about somebody besides myself and generally, first, I'm not perfect every day. I mean, I mean I pray to God to make this day great. I do, but I also. But you know that relationship with God has probably gotten me farther than anything else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because when I went through AA, I had a sponsor that explained it to me in words that I can understand. It wasn't higher power, this and read the Bible. And it wasn't. It wasn't all that. You know we went to. We went that. We had a guy in our class that went to an AA meeting and he goes what's the higher power? Why can't I just say to whom it may concern and I was good with that because he's right Just somebody that's bigger than yourself. And if you can find whatever that is for you, that's awesome because it helps a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's like taking yourself out of the God seat.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely yeah, when you quit driving the bus, it's a lot better, that's good, hit them with some tough questions, guys.
Speaker 1:What do you got right over here, please?
Speaker 3:Yeah, chris, thanks for sharing, I think, a lot of good insights to hear from someone that's been through the program. I'm particularly curious about what your experience was like leading Valiant either advice that you'd offer, sort of getting out, or things to expect. I think we had four or five guys pick up coins, a day and just looking for something to say there.
Speaker 1:Good question.
Speaker 2:For me it was I didn't expect anything. It was super hard. I mean it was I didn't expect anything. It was super hard. I mean I actually went back to work 45 days in the program, so I was working a full-time job and then I was doing this when I was an IOP. I've lived in sober living for I don't know 60 or 80 days after that, but I didn't know what to expect.
Speaker 2:And it actually brought comfort to not know what to expect, if that makes sense, because then again it adds that pressure back to yourself that you're supposed to be something that maybe you're not, because when you first get out of here in 120 days, 130 days, whatever it is everything is so different. It's so different than when you left it. You know I had to find a new way home when I was driving home. There's a liquor store, there's a liquor store, there's a liquor store. Well, I got to go this way just so that I can break the routine. I didn't go into a 7-Eleven for a year and a half because there were fireball shots on the counter. So be prepared to be uncomfortable and accept being uncomfortable, because you're going to be in there and the only way that you can get through.
Speaker 2:It is literally one day at a time, because you don't know who you are anymore. You just don't. And I don't know if that answered your question, but it's. It's. It's seriously hard and it's there's some pressure to it, but just try to take it easy on yourself the best you can and remember, remember the things that got you through this and apply those where you can.
Speaker 1:I like that idea of embracing the unexpected Cause. That really pushes back against my control tendencies big time.
Speaker 2:But when you say that, I'm like yeah, that actually sounds kind of freeing, very much so, and I find myself doing it today that I'll put myself in those uncomfortable spots just to see how does it feel and can I do it? Yeah, you know it's good. Feel and can I do it. Yeah, you know it's good. And can I do it without help? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, you know this is uncomfortable. I mean, I'm not a public speaker, but you guys are my people. You understand, mm-hmm, you know, and don't be afraid to share in a meeting. If you're having a bad day in a meeting, tell somebody, pull somebody aside, share in a meeting. Say man, I don't get this shit.
Speaker 1:Being able to have that freedom is awesome. That's good, great question.
Speaker 4:Thank you, yeah, you spoke a little bit on how going back home. You know people expect this person. You know um and I. I feel that you know I'm in and out of treatment the past five years. I come to treatment and I make all these changes. It's resolved to be a different person. I go back home and I fall into the same habits, same routines, the same personality, because they're expecting this version of Mike. How did you, how did you not kind of fall back in to those old behaviors and that same kind of personality?
Speaker 2:The short answer is that I found new people to hang out with. I lost probably my best friend for 10 years, lived right next door, drank every Friday, every Saturday, every Sunday oh sorry, bud, love you, how you doing Good to see you. They start bringing out the beer. I got to go. That was probably the hardest part is I lost some pretty good friends because I just chose not to hang out in those groups.
Speaker 2:There was much more things in this life that were much more important to me my family, my kids, my sobriety, my job. You know I had to accept that fact, that I just couldn't be that person anymore. You know I'm still the same guy. I still like to go out and have a good time and do those things, but when they start getting rowdy and pulling out shots and all that, you guys have fun, I'll see you later. I got shit to do, you know and it's not to offend anybody I think that's the biggest thing is that my friends felt like it was their job to protect my sobriety and I want everybody to know that my sobriety is my problem, it's my thing to deal with, it's not yours and I don't want you to help me with it. I want to do it. I want to do the things that I've learned to do and go to the people that I know, because you can't keep me sober whether you're not drinking or drinking, you can't. And the faster people understand that about you, the easier it becomes. That's good.
Speaker 1:Right over here. Yeah, I'd like to ask you.
Speaker 2:I'm curious to find out how you made my way back. I think my family made their way back to me. The other thing that I took away from here is do what you say you're going to do. If you're not going to do it, then don't then say you're not going to do it, but live to those principles of saying if you're going to be somewhere, you'd be somewhere. If you're going to do something, you're going to do something, and and the other thing is is is try to be.
Speaker 2:I had to be a lot more attentive and I had to pay attention to what they were going through at the same time of what I was going through, and I had to be empathetic to what they had going on, because everything when you go back is turned upside down. Those people, when you come out of there, those people literally have no idea who you are. They don't. They think, well, that's great that he's 90 days, 110 days, 120 days, that's awesome. They're very happy for you, but they don't know who you are and they don't trust you.
Speaker 2:You know, I think that my wife probably looked at me a lot of the times in the first year and said well, is today the day that I come home, that he fell off, because it's expected for you to fall off, it's expected for you to relapse, it's expected for you to relapse, it's expected for you to have a bump. And I just flat refuse to do that. I just flat refuse. You know, me and my wife have a conversation a lot about well, why don't you have a mocktail or an, a beer? And I tell her I'm like hey, I appreciate the thought, Thank you for thinking of me, but I just assume not. I'd rather not tempt myself To me. It's temptation To me. If I get that taste back in my mouth, I know exactly what I'm going to do. Whether I do or not, it remains to be seen, because I won't put myself in that position.
Speaker 2:But I think it's give everybody else the grace that you're asking for them to give you Because, like I said, they don't know who you are anymore. They don't know everything that you've learned in here. They have their once a week chats with the therapist and they tell you how you're doing, but it's not the same as when you're there every day and how you deal with a certain situation, or how you deal with a rough day, or how you deal with a tough kid, or how you. They just don't. You don't know how you're going to react. So, as much grace as you're asking from them, and you have to give them some.
Speaker 1:That's good. It's really good, thank you. Thank you for that chat. It was amazing.
Speaker 2:That's all you got.
Speaker 4:Yeah, great Okay.
Speaker 2:Great got great.
Speaker 4:this is the favorite part so yeah, like a big part of the recovery process here at Valiant is it involves finding things out about yourself that you didn't know, and a lot of times it's something you don't like and it's hard to deal with. How did you offer yourself love and compassion?
Speaker 2:while discovering those things out about yourself. That's a great question. I think in the beginning I sucked at it because when things became apparent to me on why I was doing the things that I was doing, it was very hurtful and I didn't really know what to do with that hurt. And I don't think that I know what to do with it today. But I think a lot about what I've learned in here and what I've learned from AA and what I've learned in here and what I've learned from AA and what I've learned I still see a counselor, that I still have an outlet to let some of that go. I think time heals a lot of that.
Speaker 2:Three years ago I couldn't stand to look at the guy in the mirror. I absolutely couldn't stand it. I, the guy in the mirror, I absolutely couldn't stand it. I didn't like the guy that I was. I didn't like who I'd become. I didn't like anything about myself. And now I don't say that I love myself and that I'm okay. I'm okay with the guy that I see in the mirror today, I'm okay with that, and to me that's a pretty big step, you know.
Speaker 2:I mean I think it's again, I think it's just part of the process. I think you just have to trust in that process and you have to engage the things that you've learned, because it's not easy, it's really not. I mean, guys, you know, you've been sober three years and some days it's just really super simple for you, and then two days later it's a fucking bitch. It's not the drinking that's the hard part. It's the emotions and the feelings. The drink for me is easy. It's all the other stuff that's still hard. But if you can slow yourself down, if you can try to process it and just let yourself feel it I hated that too Just go ahead and feel it. Fuck you, kiss my ass. I don't want to feel this. This sucks, no, but some of it you just have to sit in, you just have to, and you find a way to deal with it and, quite honestly, there's nothing you can do about it really. Anyway, I mean, you just have to do the best you can every day. There's no easy answer to it. There just isn't.
Speaker 1:I appreciate these answers too, because you know, of course, when Pete said that it would be a good idea to have you in, I have complete trust in Pete. I don't do any vetting, but I will say one concern or fear that comes up is that we bring in someone that's got some sobriety and they paint this picture of how easy or how amazing or whatever. I actually draw a lot of hope from what you're saying and I appreciate your candor and your honesty around it. What I long to do and I've said this a lot here is I want to be connected.
Speaker 1:So even when you say, feel your feelings, I want to and, as crazy as it sounds, I want to feel fear and I want to feel sadness and I want to feel lonely and I want to live in it. I don't want to stay there and I'm not trying to be negative, but like I've just numb those feelings for so long and there's such a, there's a gift in all of those. You know it's like man if you're sad, you get to actually experience comfort that you never would have experienced before if you didn't allow yourself to be sad. So there's like good parts of these, but I'm just, I'm grateful for just how honest you're being as far as what it looks like, because I don't know that it's helpful to bring someone in that's been three or four or five years and all of a sudden paint this picture of.
Speaker 2:And I think anybody that paints that picture for you is a fucking liar. I'm sorry that I'm pretty raw and I'm telling you guys that God's honest truth. There are so many great things that go with sobriety. There are. Your life is so much better. It's so much more controllable, it's so much more to understand.
Speaker 2:But there are days, man, it's tough. It's tough where you want to isolate. You want to go in your room and close the door and stick your head under your pillow, or you want to stop at that liquor store, or you want to go get a bottle of pills, or you want to do all these things. And you just have to have it in the front of your brain every day that says if you do that, you're going to die. You're going to die Because, well, I guarantee you, if anybody else that's in here is an alcoholic, took one drink, I guarantee you within three weeks you'll be back to drinking more than when you quit and your body can't handle it anymore. My brain's just now healing. You can't handle it.
Speaker 2:I get the smell of it. It makes me sick. My wife will have a glass of wine or a drink and the smell of it makes me want. It doesn't make me want to vomit, but I feel the pit in my stomach going dude, no, wow, yeah, but it's, it's not a rosy picture, it's, it's. It's one of the beautiful things is it's like you just said, that the, the, the ability to comfort yourself is an awesome feeling, right? The, the, the, the, the ability to comfort yourself is an awesome feeling, right. The feeling to get yourself out of the dark place that you're in. There's nothing like it. There's nothing like it. You get out of that little spot and you just have this. Oh, I made it through that. It was hard, but it wasn't that bad. And just to have the ability to do that is.
Speaker 1:Well, and that's what we learn in here is to be able to hold these things in tension of like man, yeah, life is better and it's not easy, it can be both, and that's a really, I think, a more mature, advanced way of being able to hold different feelings at the same time.
Speaker 2:And life is hard. There's nothing easy about any life. Whether you're sober, straight, it doesn't matter. If you're hammered, drunk or straight, it doesn't matter. Life is hard anyway. Everything is a challenge, but it's how you want to address the challenge. You know, some days you don't want to get out of bed. I'd say that's okay If you put three or four of them together. You better be calling somebody. You better figure out why you're feeling the way you're feeling and you better have somebody you can talk to, whether that's your sponsor, whether that's somebody from in here. You better call somebody, and I heard somebody in here earlier say well, I don't know if they want to talk to me, but I need to talk to them. Those people will listen to you any day of the week you get with Pete. I'll leave my phone number with every one of you. Call me anytime you want, anytime of the day. I don't care, because it's hard, it's not easy, but it makes you figure out who the person that you want to be is. It gives you something to strive for.
Speaker 1:It's awesome, guys. Let's say thanks to Chris for sharing with us tonight. Good job, man. That was amazing, Really good, thank you.
