Valiant Living Podcast
Welcome to the Valiant Living Podcast where we educate, encourage, and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom.
Valiant Living has been restoring lives and families since 2017 by providing multiple levels of care for men and their families. Fully accredited by The Joint Commission, Valiant Living has earned a national reputation as a premier treatment program, offering IOP, PHP, and recovery housing programs for men ages 26 and older. Founder and CEO MIchael Dinneen is a nationally recognized therapeutic expert, speaker, and thought leader in the behavioral health field.
On this podcast you’ll hear from the Valiant team as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at (720)-756-7941 or email admissions@valiantliving.com We’d love to have a conversation with you!
Valiant Living Podcast
The Prodigal Path: Faith and Freedom with Ryan Canaday
Discover how spirituality can be a lifeline in the journey of recovery as we share powerful narratives of rebirth and transformation. This episode of the Valiant Living Podcast features Ryan, a dedicated leader within the Free Recovery Community. He opens up about his personal path to sobriety, which began on January 7th, 2013, and highlights the critical role that faith played in overcoming addiction. Alongside Ryan, I recount my own experiences as a United Methodist pastor struggling with alcohol addiction and the moment my wife's intervention propelled me towards a newfound clarity and purpose.
We navigate the complex tapestry of questioning faith during times of pain and crisis, emphasizing the importance of asking difficult questions in safe, supportive spaces. Through candid storytelling, we unravel the layers of shame, fear, and identity crises that often accompany addiction, illustrating how sharing these vulnerabilities can lead to profound healing. By drawing on biblical narratives and personal experiences, we explore how recovery mirrors the journey of the Prodigal Son, where unconditional love offers a homecoming for those who have lost their way.
Our conversation takes us on a journey of building and expanding recovery communities that prioritize belonging over belief. Through strategic partnerships with organizations like the Phoenix and CARE Colorado Artists in Recovery, we aim to create environments where individuals can find joy in sobriety through activities such as sober open mic nights and trauma-informed yoga. This episode is an invitation to view recovery as an ongoing process filled with grace and celebration, as we lay plans for launching ten new recovery communities in the next decade, starting with Chicago, and emphasizing the importance of service and presence in one's ongoing journey to wholeness.
Well, hey, everyone. Welcome to the Valiant Living podcast, where we educate, encourage and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom. I'm your host, Drew Powell, and I'm a grateful alumni of the Valiant Living program. Valiant Living offers hope and transformational change to men and their families struggling with addiction and mental health challenges. So on this podcast you'll hear from the Valiant team, as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at 720-756-7941. Or you can email admissions at valiantlivingcom. We'd love to have a conversation with you, but for now, let's dive into today's episode.
Speaker 2:So tonight it's really special to have Ryan here tonight. Just a little bit of my backstory and how we met. So when I came into the program, some of you know my story. I was a pastor in Nashville. I came to this program and my relationship with God was complicated at best because I had been pretending and manipulating all these things, and then when I had my big public implosion, it was tough right, and I definitely had a complicated relationship with the church, for sure. And then the thing with my relationship with God was just like I don't even know what's what, and so I had a really tough relationship with God, was just like I don't even know what's what, and so I had a really tough conversation with God. And at Foxfield, where I was just like God, I'm not I'm not out on you yet, but I definitely going to have to hit the reset button. I got to start over, grew up in the church, pastor's kid, the whole deal was a pastor for 20 years and I was like I don't even know what I believe anymore and I just and and God really met me in that place and it was. It's been a beautiful journey for me since then.
Speaker 2:But while I was here, peyton said hey, I want you to go try this church with me. And I was like that is the last thing I want to do on the planet is go to a church right now, like there's just no way. But because I love peyton, I trust him. He's like trust me, this is way different. I think it was on a saturday night maybe. So it was just you know and I will. I will tell you.
Speaker 2:I walked into free recovery community and I was like it was emotional for me because I was like this is what I had hoped church could be for me, because it was so honest and you guys were celebrating people's recovery and celebrating just you know. People were just free to share what was going on in their life and really for me I it wasn't until I got here at Valiant and in some other rooms that I didn't that in some ways became church for me. It became the place where I could confess and I could be honest and I could have community and and growing up in the church, I just never, I never experienced it at that level. So, anyways, I walked in, I experienced free recovery community and was just blown away goosebumps. Fletch went with me that night and we both were dealing with just religious trauma stuff and it just was a really beautiful experience.
Speaker 2:And so, um, I I met ryan night but then just recently reached out to him again and we just became real fast friends and I just appreciate you and appreciate what you're leading over there. A lot of you guys have been involved with free and go over there, so I was like let's have him come and just kind of talk to us specifically around this. I want to hear your story too and kind of how you got to where you're at. But I also want to create a space here where we can maybe go to some places that might be even a little uncomfortable, because you can handle it, you live in this space.
Speaker 3:I thought we didn't do this.
Speaker 2:But if you're like me and maybe your relationship with your higher power is, you're locked in.
Speaker 2:But if you're like me and maybe your relationship with your higher power is, you're locked in. But if you're like me, when you go through crisis, man, it just really makes you question a lot of things and I would imagine, with however many people are in this room right now, we're probably in all very different places when it comes to just spirituality and the God thing and everything else. So just know, on the front end, this isn't a preachy churchy, beat you over the head with a Bible talk. This is us saying, when we experience pain and we experience hardship and things like that, that spirituality is important but it's also complicated and we need to have places like free, with pastors like Ryan who permission us to ask the hard questions and permission us to journey wherever we're at in the process, and so really grateful for you. Um, so can we just welcome Ryan for being here tonight? Tell us a little bit about just your story. How did you? You're in recovery? Love to hear a little bit of your recovery story.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, uh, yeah, I got sober, january 7th of 2013. And I'll just give a little back story. Cut me off if you need. No what?
Speaker 2:time we got to Until 7. Okay, and I'd love them to have some time for questions too.
Speaker 3:So I'll just give the brief back story. I'm still in central time. First, being an alcoholic was never supposed to be me in my mind. My brother, who was three years older than me. He was the addict and alcoholic in the family Good Christian family, church-going family and he was in and out of the county jail. I could never understand him. He was my best friend but I was so angry at him and I would go into that jail to visit him in that orange suit and I'd say, dude, why can't you just get it together, why can't you just stop? I didn't understand addiction. I didn't understand it was a problem of the mind. Look at all the shame you're bringing into our family. Look at how mom's heart is breaking and you're doing this. Just stop, get your shit together. You know he got clean and sober when I was in high school. Later in high school he got clean and sober, stayed clean and sober. He went to a treatment, stayed clean and sober for about a year and a half.
Speaker 3:I went off to Bible school when I graduated high school. I wanted to be a pastor. I wanted to do what youth group did for me and youth group and I never felt like I belonged as a kid, from the age of five years old on, and I had traumatic experiences that some of you all have mentioned tonight and, uh, I never felt like I belonged and I felt like you all got something that I didn't get. Like I missed that day of school where you all got it and I missed how to do relationships. I missed how to do life. All got it and I missed how to do relationships. I missed how to do life. Anyway, I graduate, go to Bible school this place I'm from Missouri went up to Michigan, a place I'd never been, and I was there for one month so I didn't know anyone. There wasn't connected yet and my mom called me. I'll never forget it and she said Ryan, you need to come home.
Speaker 3:Brandon's been killed in a car accident and, man, that was a moment for me. He relapsed and he was the drunk driver. So when we say this disease or addiction kills, it's a very real thing. But that was a moment for me where this God that I was so close to just crumbled, this God that I had given my life to. I felt so abandoned by this God. Everything I believed was called into question and I didn't know how to say that I didn't know how to admit that to anyone because it would create shame in my life.
Speaker 3:I didn't pick up my first drink until I was 16 years old and I was the good kid. In high school I was a leader in the church youth group. He was the bad kid, I was the good kid. In high school, I was a leader in the church youth group. He was the bad kid, I was the good kid. But I picked up a drink when I was 16.
Speaker 3:It started the same way it ended. It started in isolation, no one was around and man, when it was Bacardi Rum when it hit my mouth, I remember thinking I did not know this was available. This feeling that just hit my body. It was amazing to me. And why is the church? Why are my Christian friends? Why are they keeping this from me? We should all be doing this. It took away shame in my life. It made me feel good. It gave me a sensation I didn't know existed.
Speaker 3:But I had so much shame being raised in a church and being raised in religion that I couldn't admit to anyone that I liked it. So some of my youth group friends found out and I would have to lie to them and say oh man, I hated it, it was awful. I was in the backyard puking and I was a blackout drunk from my very first drink, so I tried to act like I didn't like this thing. Some time passes and I only drank probably five other times in high school, early college, once my brother died. This, um, like the opposite of a miracle happened. Right, I picked up right where he left off and how that happened. Uh, it's absolutely baffling to me that I went down the road that I hated. I became the thing that I was so fearful of.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, getting sober. You know, I went on and I became a pastor. Yeah, tell us about that.
Speaker 2:So I'm curious how did you go from that moment Because I've got so many questions around this idea of pain and how pain can sometimes be a catalyst or trauma into that. But walk us through that journey of how did you get sober? And then I'd love to even hear your calling into the ministry world.
Speaker 3:You know, when I went to college, went to Christian University, got my biblical studies degree, got a DUI. In college I was in a Christian university, got married right out of college, went straight to seminary. On the outside, my life looked good On the outside. You could look at me and say, man, he's got it together, he's headed places. On the inside, I hated myself. On the inside I didn't know how to cope with feelings. I didn't know.
Speaker 3:I heard tonight some of you men talk about this experience of we get to feel again In recovery. You get to feel again. Man, I relate with that. I didn't know how to feel when feelings came up. I pushed them aside because I didn't know how to deal with it. So I get married. I get appointed as a pastor. Deal with it. So I get married, I get appointed as a pastor in a church.
Speaker 3:I'm an Ordained United Methodist pastor and my life is falling apart. My inner life is falling apart and things on the outside are starting to fall apart. I was in so much fear. People my closest friends, family members were saying to me hey, you drink a lot. My closest friends, family members, were saying to me hey, you drink a lot, you might need to get help. You're doing this. You're doing that. I had a two and a half year old daughter at the time. I have four kids now Two and a half year old daughter. At the time, when my wife would go out of town, I would leave my daughter in her crib to leave the house and go drink the way I wanted to drink. This was survival mode for me.
Speaker 3:The day I got sober in 2013, I'll never forget it my wife Tammy came down the stairs. I was passed out on the couch again because that's what we alcoholics do and I hear her upstairs. It was like early in the morning, six o'clock, and I hear her starting to come down and I pop off the couch really quick to make it look like I'm good. We got our shit together.
Speaker 3:And, man, she probably did this a hundred other times, but this day it stuck with me. It was like we talk about the G-O-D, the gift of desperation, and she was standing on the stairs and she was holding this empty bottle of vodka and she was crying and she said, ryan, what are we going to do? And for whatever reason, I heard that word, we and I knew I wasn't alone. And, man, that was the day, that pain you talk about, and I had no intention of that being a profound moment in my life, and yet that was the day I could see, and I need help. Everything I value and love the most is crumbling, and I don't want to live that way.
Speaker 2:So walk us through how you got to starting free and just the idea and the vision behind that, because it's such a radical approach to doing church. I don't even know if you use that word, but it's very different.
Speaker 3:Some people call it a church and some people are like what are you talking about? This isn't a church. This is my recovery community or this is my, this is my tribe, my people and I really don't care what people call it. We care what we do there and what people experience. Uh, but the short story is I stayed silent in my recovery for three years. Uh, I didn't want anyone to find out. Um, I I attended AA meetings but I drove all the way across town because I didn't want anyone to see me. I was so scared of what people would think of me being a pastor and in recovery I thought I would lose my career. I had all this fear and shame that I was covered in With working with some mentors and a sponsor in my life.
Speaker 3:I decided to go public with my story From the pulpit on a Sunday morning at all three worship services and I was shaky and I shared my story and I was met with a lot of love and grace and that was surprising to me.
Speaker 3:But more surprising was that next day, that Monday morning, my email box was flooded and it was from people in the community saying hey, I struggle too. How'd you put down the bottle or my brother or sister struggle, mom or dad, son or daughter. And I get to church the next Sunday and I'm looking out at the people and and I thought, oh my goodness, we have a huge problem. You are struggling with the same thing of the person sitting next to you. You've been sitting next to each other for years and you don't know it. Because we have this problem of silence with addiction because it's covered up in shame. And I just looked out and I saw how many people were struggling and that started us on a journey. I woke up my wife in the middle of the night one night. It was April 3rd 2018.
Speaker 3:That's my birthday and I said honey what if we start a place for addicts like me and loved ones of addicts, people like you and what we call spiritual refugees, people who have been so burned by religion? They were told they don't belong with the God stuff. They've been either kicked out of church or they know they don't belong there. What if we start a place for them? And she told me to go back to sleep. I was in the middle of the night but this drum was beating inside of me and I couldn't shut it off. And that was in April.
Speaker 3:By June of that year, we just opened up our backyard. I was still serving as full-time pastor, but on Saturday nights we opened up our backyard for anyone who wanted to talk about recovery, spirituality, the God stuff, and our backyard started to fill up really quickly, like in four weeks, and we were like we don't know what to do and we just planned on doing four weeks and someone after that four weeks is over someone's like what do we do next? And I was like no, I hadn't thought about that. And we went full time within a month. After that it grew very quickly.
Speaker 2:And how is free if someone hasn't been there? How do you explain it? Like, how is it different? You know, I know how I experienced it, but, like you know, I'll let you go first, but it was very different for me.
Speaker 3:I'll let you go first, but it was very different for me and I've been in just about every kind of church you can imagine growing up One. I think it's different because I've actually been transformed by the honesty that I found in meetings of Alcoholics Anonymous and that people could share so freely and openly their heart and we're bound together through our suffering, through our lowest points in life. That was an amazing thing I experienced in recovery. So I've been there and I crave this honesty and to create spaces where that can happen. What makes it different is we are a community for and we say it's on every piece of literature, we say it every Saturday night we're a community for. Addicts say it's on every piece of literature, we say it every Saturday night. We're a community for addicts, loved ones of addicts and spiritual refugees, and our tagline is we don't do shame.
Speaker 3:Because the number of people and myself included, man I could not figure out how to leave the church parking lot and turn right to go home instead of turning left to go to the liquor store. It baffled me and I didn't want anyone to ever find out about this. I didn't want to be seen. I didn't want to be known, because my thinking was if you know me, if God really knows me, god's not going to want me and so I'm unworthy. I start from a place of shame. The number of people that come in with stories of shame and fear around being loved and worthy, it's damn near everybody, and if we can break down those barriers, that's what we try to do and we celebrate.
Speaker 3:We celebrate those milestones. I have a friend, you know, we get to see so much light and so much celebration, but I have a friend who reminds me. He says, Ryan, you're like pastoring a psych ward. I mean, this is like the triage, because there is so much pain in this place and just in the last two weeks we've had five fentanyl deaths. I just met with a family yesterday who lost their 32-year-old son.
Speaker 2:There's pain that comes with addiction, but there's also that front row seat to God's miracles that happen all the time, all right, so let's, let's dive into a couple things real quick, because here's what I'm curious about when pain happens you've you've experienced extreme trauma and pain in your life what do you say to the people who are life, what do you say to the people who are, who carry this God, where were you Like you know, where were you Like? You're supposed to be good, you're supposed to be loving, you're supposed to be all these things that I've heard? But that's not how I experienced you. That's not. I didn't get the miracles like some people got. I didn't get like.
Speaker 2:It just feels like, for whatever reason, um and I know this is a very difficult question, I'm asking you, but for whatever reason, it just feels like God. You've had your thumb on me the whole time. If you even exist, you're definitely not good, because if you were good, I wouldn't be going through what I'm going through, or I've experienced that. And so how do you begin to start helping someone? Unpack all that, because it's a lot. Yeah, begin to start helping someone. Unpack all that, because it's a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, I think back to what I needed in times of when my brother died. That was a very traumatic moment in my life and we prayed to God for years that he would be saved from addiction and I thought God would do that and then God did it, and then he dies. It was such a feeling of betrayal, what I needed. I remember going to a Bible school class within a couple of weeks after his death and I was asking real questions, the questions you were just asking, and they were real questions for me. And the professor told me it sounds like you just want to justify your leaving, it sounds like you just want to get out of this. And I thought, dude, these are honest questions. What are you and it was.
Speaker 3:It was like, again, shame producing for me. When people come into free with their deepest pain and their deepest questions, um, I don't think they're looking for answers, because there's not really an answer. If I could say, well, this is why that happened, would any answer really suffice in that moment? No, I think what we're looking for is someone to say, like my sponsor when I did my fifth step, I share all the shit, and I think he's going to like, come at me and he says me too. That was so freeing for me when we can just sit with people in their pain and say, yeah, yeah, that hurts, that's darkness, that's.
Speaker 3:And in fact, you read through the Psalms. Psalms are in the Old Testament, the Hebrew Bible, just ancient poems and prayers. They're constantly crying out God, where are you, god, why'd you do this? How long are we going to suffer? So we try really hard at Free to create space where the questions are welcome and we don't feel the need to answer all the questions, because some questions they're not answerable, some questions it's like I don't know. So I've gotten really comfortable with that response.
Speaker 3:I don't know. Why did he die? It's like I don't know, so I've gotten really comfortable with that response. I don't know, I don't know why did he die?
Speaker 2:I don't know. There's real pain in the world, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, well, it's interesting that you're talking. I was thinking about you know, we a lot of times we get hit with the Sunday school churchy answers for things. But I love how you, how you drew that out, because that's just not even how we see God responding to people oftentimes in scripture. You know, because I think of like Elijah when he was battling depression.
Speaker 2:I mean God basically said you need a steak and a nap I mean that's my paraphrase, but that's basically what he said Whereas we'd be like you gotta pray harder. You just give it over to God or you got surrendered. God was like man. When's the last time you slept Like? When's the last time you slept? When's the last time you had a good meal?
Speaker 2:It's like even God is not giving the churchy answers that sometimes we try to jam down people's throat. They just fall short when you hit that wall. Or, like our Catholic brothers and sisters, call it the dark night of the soul that at some point everyone goes through. Hopefully they go through, because you talked about the gift of desperation. It's like you look back and you're like man. I'm so glad I hit that wall because I would never got to the other side without it. Um, but that's what I love about what you're doing, and I think what even Valiant wants to do is create spaces for questions and and to explore these things.
Speaker 2:But I'm curious cause I want to go back to and then I want you guys to ask questions here. I want to make sure we have. Are we good on time? How much time do we have left? I just want to make sure there's space for your questions. But before we get to that, can you talk about shame a little bit more? That's something I really related to when you said that I was pastoring. Big church looked like I was crushing on the outside, but I felt like there was nobody in my life. I could tell who. I was struggling because it was going to cost me my job. All these shame narratives were happening. How did you kind of battle through that and can you just encourage us around? How do we? How do we approach this idea of shame, specifically when it comes to how God may feel about us as we're going through stuff?
Speaker 3:So my first approach to it was uh, and I don't recommend this approach. Um, on that morning, january 7th, when Tammy said those words to me, I said you know what, honey? You're right, I'm going to call our counselor. We had a marriage counselor we were working with a few years prior. I'm going to call our counselor. And it's not like I consciously went through this thought, but what was underneath it all was no one can find out about this. So if I can just do this one-on-one with a counselor and I never have to tell you the congregation never has to find out family for it and they never have to find out I'm going to work through this one-on-one. Um, and she essentially thank God for good therapist. She said get your ass to an AA meeting. She wouldn't even see me. She said not until you get some support.
Speaker 3:So I know that feeling of shame. What it says is stay in fear. Your best option is hiding. It's that internal nagging voice that says if they really see you, you're not going to measure up, you're not going to be worthy. And I had all these messages from the time I was a kid, so they stuck with me. This is how you survive. You stay in the background, what I found was in recovery.
Speaker 3:This amazing thing happened and I was so scared to go into a 12-step meeting, I mean, to get me. I mean I remember sitting in my red Toyota pickup truck like just gripping the wheel, thinking, god, there's got to be another way out of this meal. Thinking, god, there's got to be another way out of this. And then going in there and finding a community of people that had been there and they talked about it in honest ways and they talked about it in ways of man. They couldn't stop either. I thought I was the only one like God, why can't I stop?
Speaker 3:And I tried so many different methods, like get rid of white liquor and go to brown liquor, don't drink on Saturday nights because you got to preach on Sunday morning. Like I tried all these things and they always failed. And when I heard other people tell their story, I was like, oh, that was me. And then you learn how to start opening up with other people because these people loved me when I didn't know how to love myself, and then so, and then when it started working in my faith because I had a God who I was certain, was always disappointed in me here's Ryan. You were going to be a great Christian leader and instead, look at you, you're an alcoholic.
Speaker 2:I was about to ask you can you talk more about that, Like for someone who might be saying there's no way, like God has to be disappointed or even pissed at me because there's no way because of what I've done or because of who I've hurt, or if you knew my story, there's no way that God could not be disappointed in me.
Speaker 3:Are you all going to be disgruntled if I tell one Bible story? I promise I won't keep preaching. You Bible thumper, I shouldn't have even said it's from the Bible. I could tell the story, and I think you've already cussed three times before.
Speaker 2:you said a Bible story, so I think you're in the clear yeah, it's fine, don't tell my mom no, I love it, I love it. You've already equaled it out, so you're good.
Speaker 3:All right, good, just one, though foundational stories at free. It's a story that's often referred to as the prodigal son.
Speaker 4:I mean, you know this story, I love this story because and I didn't understand it- until I got into recovery I did not understand it.
Speaker 3:I think y'all will. You'll relate to it, you'll. You'll understand it without even commentary. So there's, there's a younger son, older son, a father. The younger son goes to the father and says, pops, I wish you were dead so I could have my money, my inheritance money which is really offensive, by the way, because you're saying, dad, I wish you were dead so I could have the money. He says take it, it's yours.
Speaker 3:The younger son says, great, he takes the money, he goes off and blows it on prostitution it's not in the text, but probably drugs and alcohol, whatever else was available, all the things we would have blown it on. And he runs out of money and life starts to suck for him and he says, man, what I wouldn't do to go back home he doesn't have another couch to surf on, he's squandering with the pigs. I mean he's lost it all Is he doesn't have another couch to surf on, he's squandering with the pigs. I mean he's lost it all. He's at what we would call a bottom. And he says the text says I have no other options. If I go home, dad's going to, he's going to take me back, but only as a hired hand, a servant, but I have no other options. So I'm going to go back home and the story says, while the son was still a long way off, the father comes out and if you're a bit fuzzy, the father represents God in the story. The father comes out to greet him. So I imagine this God running, this father running down the driveway because he's been looking out the window every night to see if his boy is coming home. And on this morning it's actually true he runs down the driveway and it says greets him with a hug and compassion. He starts yelling to the neighbors quit, get all the party supplies, we're going to have a big party. And the son says to him dad, I don't deserve this man. Do you know what I just did with the money? Did you see my life? Wait till you hear everything I've done. And he says nonsense. My boy was lost and now he's home again and we must celebrate.
Speaker 3:And that is fundamentally how I look at every addict, alcoholic and whatever the addiction is. And recovery it is a coming home experience and I always thought God was okay. God, you're going to give me a little bit of punishment, right? What's my punishment in recovery? And instead what I get is gift after gift after gift, and there's no shame in that, that's unconditional love. When I can sit last night with my Dude you talked about having kids and I heard you and I related with that story when I could sit with my eight-year-old boy last night and my five-year-old boy and we're sitting on the couch watching a Nuggets game because the altitude channel's been restored by Xfinity Didn't cause me a resentment at all. When I'm sitting on the couch I still have 12 years sober and I still have these moments like oh, my word, this is it's all just a gift that I could do this, that I could be a pastor of a community where I can be honest, where I can live in integrity, where I don't have to be fearful.
Speaker 3:Tammy was tonight. She forgot I was coming here. She's texting me. Where are you? Where are you coming home? I said I'm at Valiant tonight. She said oh yeah, I forgot. She did not have to wonder if I was at a bar or at a liquor store or drinking somewhere where I had to stay in hiding man. Those are gifts I have today in recovery. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's beautiful man. I love that. What's coming up for you guys? What questions do you have? Comments? I'd just love to hear from you because I got a lot stirring in me, but I don't want to hog the time.
Speaker 4:You mentioned, like free, is a place for spiritual refugees.
Speaker 2:I'm sure a lot of people come in with some trauma associated with the church or other organized religion. How do you begin to like help heal that? Trauma, like as a pastor.
Speaker 3:Yeah, create. So our, our mission is literally creating space and we take that very seriously. We create space for that to happen. So we're never threatened and I I a pastor am never threatened by someone who says you know what? I just don't. I don't do the Bible thing, I don't do the. Someone told me just the other day hey, you're helping me not hate Jesus so much and I'm like I didn't know people hated Jesus. I knew people hated the church. But to say the fear, the anger, the disillusionment with the church or religion, yeah, I get it and it's welcomed here. We don't want to stay in anger. We don't want to stay.
Speaker 3:I had to learn in my recovery staying in resentment is not helpful. Religion and Christianity was on my four-step list for resentment. All over the place I mean religious leaders, institution, and I tell the story often that I had to leave behind a God. I had to let God die in my recovery so that a new God could be resurrected. So I think when we create the space for those questions and when they see you're serious about it, that I don't try to—we have a Dharma group in our facility and I love that we can welcome in other spiritual paths because I don't believe that there's just one right spiritual path. We're all on a path and I tell people find what works for you, find what connects you to something bigger than you. Your God doesn't have to look like my God, but it's probably not going to work very well if you're the God.
Speaker 2:That doesn't work well, it can't be you.
Speaker 3:But we have lots of, I think, just culturally, lots of people have been burned by religion. They've been burned by religious leaders and when we say, yeah, that's a very real thing, instead of trying to cover it up and say, oh, we're not like them, we're not part of that.
Speaker 2:That's a good question, thank you, anybody else have anything?
Speaker 5:so I was at free for the football game the other night and I was just curious about, because I know it's not just a church, it's a center for people. It sounds like you offer a lot of meetings for people, places for people to meet, aa meetings and things like that. What other kind of programs do you use your facility for?
Speaker 3:So we have a cafe. I remember talking to you at the cafe. Our cafe is open throughout the week, 9 to 9, because, again, our mission is to create space. So to create space where people can hang out, where like-minded people can gather, where you can meet with fellow people in recovery and that's loved ones and the ones battling addiction. We have over 40 meetings now throughout the week. So every single day of the week there's AA meetings, na meetings, al-anon, and not just 12-step meetings, all kinds of recovery meetings.
Speaker 3:But we've learned a great value in partnering with other organizations. So, like we partner with the Phoenix to host sober open mic nights every other month, just creating sober space for things like the Super Bowl, when we know that's a tempting time for lots of people. That's when we really went out to drink the way we wanted to drink. So how do we create space for people to stay sober on those days where they really struggle? Create space for people to stay sober on those days where they really struggle?
Speaker 3:Partnering with CARE Colorado Artists in Recovery. Their office is inside our building so we do art shows with them, trauma-informed yoga ways that are. We have a trauma therapist on site. Her office is down the hallway across from the cafe. So it's not just healing. The group settings are good. I love the group settings, but there's other fun things to do in recovery and I had to learn that I thought getting sober life is going to be boring. How do you ever go on vacation again? Why go to a beach ever? So I had to learn recovery can be fun. So creating those fun events is part of what we do. That's awesome yeah.
Speaker 2:So cool Back here.
Speaker 4:Do you have any plans to expand or add additional locations?
Speaker 3:Yes, and it's almost like that was a planted question. Yeah, so, as a, as a board of directors, we have a board. We're a nonprofit. We did some visioning last year and we came up with a vision through a long process, but we wanted to keep it simple 10 new frees in 10 new locations in 10 years. So we don't want to move fast, but we have a free recovery community Chicago launching this fall. There's a team out there working on things and putting a leadership team together.
Speaker 3:We're in conversation with San Diego right now some leaders in San Diego because we think we found something that really works and we don't want to be I don't know if y'all are familiar with the mega church movement just get thousands of people in the stadium. We want it to be relational, because there's something really cool that happens when we can get in a room and celebrate together and be honest with our heartaches. So, yeah, that is happening and if you have any ideas, I'm all open. What's that? I'm a Denver guy, okay, yeah. So Denver and Chicago is certainly on and, like I said, we're in conversation with some others. We're hosting a two-day summit in April for leaders who are interested in starting a new thing, because we had to learn a lot. I mean, if you ever start something new, it's like the funnest thing you'll ever do, the most scary thing you'll ever do, and it's like drinking from a water hose, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is a special place, maybe Nashville, you know.
Speaker 3:Maybe Nashville man, let's go.
Speaker 2:I know a guy, I'm retired, anybody else have anything? This has been great man Over here, mike.
Speaker 4:This is tough stuff you're talking about, Ryan. How do you coach a guy that there's just that little bit of not yet inside? Maybe it's shame, maybe whatever it is. There's just that space where I'm not quite in yet. He might not even say that to himself, but still there is that, I hate to say, resistance but there is that I'm going to hold out a little. Yeah, how do you move that person toward that transformation?
Speaker 3:Let me answer it this way. What the church, the traditional way of doing church, says you believe like us, you behave like us, and then you can belong. And we set up all sorts of structures around that Catechism, all different ways, different denominations and movements in different ways. But you believe, you behave like us, then you can become one of us, a full member. You can be baptized or whatever. I think a more faithful way to do it, a better way to do it, is create space for belonging and we're serious about that. You don't have to believe like me here, you can still belong.
Speaker 3:I have people say, listen, I'm here but I don't do the God stuff. That's okay and really I mean it, it's okay. It's not like, well, just give me time or let me meet you in my office. No, that's nonsense. Create space for belonging and let them know they truly belong, with all their questions, all their doubts, all the disillusionment, like truly belong, and then they might start to jump in and start serving, because in recovery it's like one of our cornerstones. I love it.
Speaker 3:How do we stay sober? We do it through acts of service. We serve other people To keep the gift. We must give the gift away. I believe that. So let people then start behaving differently, and then they might come around to believe in something bigger than them. I think it's a really important thing believing in something bigger, but you can't force people to believe and then tell them they belong. Because I fundamentally believe that when it comes to the God stuff, when it comes to a greater power, you belong simply because you are, simply because you breathe. You belong, and there's nothing we do to earn that sense of belonging or earn the right to belong. And even in our greatest mess we still belong. So do belonging first is what we try to do.
Speaker 2:Great answer, I like that. Great question. Anybody else before we wrap, I know a lot of you had a long day. I don't respect that. But I also don't leave anything on the table that needs to be asked or said Great Ryan. Leave anything on the on the table that needs to be asked or said great ryan. Just kind of final thoughts. Man, got a bunch of guys here tonight who are doing our best to live in recovery and, you know, find freedom, and you know what's what's your, what's your final thought, what's your encouragement for these guys?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah, what I would say is, 12 years into this thing, I still realize I didn't like arrive somewhere and beat it and now I've got all this wisdom and answers to drop on you. But there's a beauty that happens in recovery when we stay connected, and I do that through. I still have a sponsor that I meet with on a regular basis, I still go to meetings, I still sponsor other guys in recovery, I walk with other men in recovery and I believe in that. It transformed my life and once you shift, everything about recovery is a shift of perspective. We're given an opportunity to see everything different, including ourselves, and once that happens, then you can start seeing the shift towards gratitude. It's all a gift and we get to do this today.
Speaker 3:So I still have to remind myself that I get to do this today. I get to have a spiritual path that brings joy rather than shame. I get to do that with other people. Stay connected. That's the biggest message I would leave you with is don't disconnect from other people. Don't disconnect from a spiritual path because it's scary. I think the theme I heard over and over tonight was step into that discomfort and for some of y'all, a spiritual path path is going to be really uncomfortable, and yet more will be revealed.
Speaker 1:That's good guys, good for running, good job Well we appreciate you listening to this episode of the valiant living podcast and our hope is that it helped you feel educated, encouraged and even empowered on your journey towards peace and freedom. If we can serve you or your loved one in any way, we'd love to have a conversation with you. You can call 720-756-7941 or email admissions at valiantlivingcom. At Valiant Living, we treat the whole person so you not only survive, but you thrive in the life you deserve. And finally, if this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean a lot to us if you'd subscribe and even share it with your friends and family. You can also follow along with us on Instagram and Facebook by simply searching Valiant Living. Thanks again for listening and supporting the Valiant Living podcast. We'll see you next week.
