Valiant Living Podcast
Welcome to the Valiant Living Podcast where we educate, encourage, and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom.
Valiant Living has been restoring lives and families since 2017 by providing multiple levels of care for men and their families. Fully accredited by The Joint Commission, Valiant Living has earned a national reputation as a premier treatment program, offering IOP, PHP, and recovery housing programs for men ages 26 and older. Founder and CEO MIchael Dinneen is a nationally recognized therapeutic expert, speaker, and thought leader in the behavioral health field.
On this podcast you’ll hear from the Valiant team as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at (720)-756-7941 or email admissions@valiantliving.com We’d love to have a conversation with you!
Valiant Living Podcast
The Heart of Intervention: Wendy's Path to Helping Others
What happens when an interventionist with two decades of experience opens up about her own journey to recovery? Meet Wendy Stine, a seasoned expert who once stood on the other side of the intervention process. From hitting rock bottom to discovering a transformative path at a residential program in Estes Park, Wendy's story illuminates how personal struggles can ignite a passion for helping others. In this episode, Wendy takes us through her metamorphosis from client to professional, shedding light on the powerful impact of realized dreams in recovery.
What if the key to successful recovery lies not just with the individual but within the family? We explore this provocative question by diving into the nuanced role family dynamics play in addiction recovery. Wendy and I discuss the importance of viewing the family as the primary client, tackling issues like codependency and generational addiction through therapy and educational programs. Drawing from personal anecdotes, we reveal how healing interventions within a family can catalyze change for everyone involved, providing a more holistic path to recovery.
Mental health struggles often come with a sense of urgency, especially when mood changes or suicidal ideations are present. Wendy shares her deeply personal story of losing her brother to suicide, highlighting the necessity of timely and compassionate interventions. We dissect the emotional and logistical aspects of these interventions, emphasizing how they can serve as pivotal turning points for hope and healing. By supporting both the individual and the family, we offer a blueprint for navigating the challenging yet rewarding journey toward long-term recovery and wellness.
Well, hey, everyone, welcome to the Valiant Living podcast, where we educate, encourage and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom. I'm your host, drew Powell, and I'm a grateful alumni of the Valiant Living program. Valiant Living offers hope and transformational change to men and their families struggling with addiction and mental health challenges. So on this podcast you'll hear from the Valiant team, as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at 720-756-7941. Or you can email admissions at valiantlivingcom. We'd love to have a conversation with you, but for now let's dive into today's episode. We'd love to have a conversation with you, but for now let's dive into today's episode. Well, today we have the honor of talking to Wendy Stein, interventionist, and I'll let you unpack a little bit more of what you do, because you do a bunch of stuff. You're a very busy person and longtime friend of our founder and owner, michael Dineen. And Wendy, thanks for being on the podcast today.
Speaker 2:Oh, you are so welcome. It's actually my honor, as I told you earlier, Drew I adore. Mike Dineen, and we go way back.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:How many years?
Speaker 1:did you say 24?
Speaker 2:About 24. Yeah, yeah, I've been sober 26 and um. He actually worked at the treatment center. I went to up at Estes park at one point and then we started doing spiritual retreats together, um at a Jesuit place and down in Sedalia, and then he's hired me three or four times in different treatment centers where he's been clinical director. So we have some good stories and I would count him as one of the icons in our field. He puts the passion and compassion. Yeah, he, he puts the passion and compassion and his heart leads. You know that can get us in trouble, but when I'm with Michael, you know I know we're mission driven and it's about the client first and what's best for the client.
Speaker 2:And ultimately, that's the goal right, yeah, that's the goal, well said, well, I'm tempted to turn this whole podcast into a michael denise stories, uh, because I know we can fill time. That's part two. Um, that's part two yeah, well.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what part two we'll have to get him on here with you in the absolutely that would be fun wouldn't that be fun, oh that would.
Speaker 2:That would be fun Well.
Speaker 1:I wanted to have you on and again, we could probably do a whole series of podcast episodes with you. Know, I think you said there's 22 years in this field that you've been working in substance abuse, mental health industry. Can you tell us a little bit of your journey? What inspired you to get into this work?
Speaker 2:Sure inspired you to get into this work. Sure, basically, my own recovery. Like many of us, I went into treatment in 98, and it was ugly. It wasn't one bottom, it was a series of bottoms and thinking I could control it, all the big lies of addiction that tells us it's not that bad. And finally I ended up at a residential program, broken and it was profound. I you know it was up in the mountains in Estes Park and that it was a place to really start to get right with myself, my spiritual life. And I knew then, like a hundred other people, that I wanted to work in the field and I told my therapist that and he gave me the pat on the head and said do your work, come back in five years and we'll talk about it. And that was really good advice.
Speaker 2:So once I left treatment, that's what I did and I started taking classes and courses, went back to school like an addict, full on, while working, getting my hours in various places. At one point I had three part-time jobs trying to get the hours for my CAC certification and that was really great because I was exposed to. I worked in detox, which was fabulous. I worked in an IOP and I had one of the best psychiatrists overseeing me. I worked volunteer up at Harmony so I got. I got all my CAC hours and it was just about five years to the month that I got hired at the treatment center I was a client at.
Speaker 1:No way. What was that like for you? That had to be full circle.
Speaker 2:Oh it was. It was super special and it was like a poor comparison would be like being invited to the cool kid table in high school at the cafeteria. I got to sit with the counselors. You know, and it was a realized dream and I wasn't used to that in my addiction of having realized dreams. Yeah, used to that in my addiction of having realized dreams, yeah, you know, in in you you had things that were on a list, that were never really going to happen right so, um, that's where I started.
Speaker 2:I started as a primary therapist and worked in in that capacity for about eight, ten years yeah um, yeah I definitely relate to that.
Speaker 1:Just, I feel the same way being at valiant, because I was a client at valiant. Um, and so the fact that I get to sit around the table sometimes with these people who have really I used to say that they saved my life I now say they gave me the tools to save my life um, it's, it's still not lost on me that I get to partner with these people.
Speaker 1:I mean, they're they're my heroes, you know it's like they really are, and so I can relate to, to that feeling of being able to get back and sit at the table with the in the very place and the very people that you know when you're kind of rock bottom. But as someone who has so you've had roles from therapist, always executive director. I mean you've had roles from therapist all the way to executive director. I mean you've kind of done it all in this field. What are some and this is, I know this is a huge softball question, but what are some of the significant lessons that you've learned about addiction and recovery? And then I want to drill down specifically about interventions. But just what have you seen in the last 22 years?
Speaker 2:Well, I would say the one thing I try to keep personally and professionally is to always be teachable.
Speaker 2:I need to come in with some humility that I don't know everything, even though I've been around forever. That doesn't really mean much at the end of the day to the client right, and personally, I think it keeps my recovery and spiritual connection in line if I can be teachable and always learn something, and I learned something from every single client. Every situation is different, every family is different and sometimes I just it might be a dose of gratitude that I get that my family still loves me and speaks with me and I get to go home to a nice house, um, so the gratitude is a big part. Um, as a field in addiction, we are learning so much about the brain so it is constantly changing and the new science is amazing and I'm excited to see how we can improve outcomes. So I would say always being open-minded to learning new things and seeing what people are doing is is one thing that really drives me and it does keep me in that teachable spot.
Speaker 1:I love that answer.
Speaker 1:I love the humility that comes I that's not what I expected you to say, but that's a profound answer. Um, the the humility and teachability. Um, you, I'm kind of inspired slash, convicted by that, because I do think you know you can get in a field long enough. You start thinking I'm the expert and I know, and that's a dangerous place to get to, I think in some regards, um, but the fact that, especially in an industry, like you said, that is continually growing science, just in the last few years, that we're learning about the brain and the addiction and it's it's huge, it's big stuff, you know, and so I think that's a really beautiful and and, uh, humble answer. I can see why you and michael denine have been friends for so long, because you, you, that sounds like something he would say. I consider him like a this expert in the field and he's just like he's so humble about you know his experience sometimes, you know, but you, I don't know how recent it's been, but you now have a wellness practice, could you plug that a little bit.
Speaker 1:I'd love to hear about what you're doing, right?
Speaker 2:now, and how I got here was I. You know I started out more on the clinical side, being, you know, therapists at treatment centers and and then helping build some programs, suggest you know how programs might be run and suggestions like that. Um, I enjoyed. I worked at Redpoint as well, doing directing IOP, and that was a great experience. Anything that's creative got my juices flowing. I worked in business development back in the day and what I loved about that was going. I mean, I didn't sell a treatment center is how I viewed it. I sold recovery.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so when I would go to conferences, I represented recovery, or when I spoke on a radio or TV or anywhere, I'm representing recovery, not a treatment center. I think that might be a little different now. It's such a numbers driven industry Led me to kind of want to have my own wellness practice in which I focus on the whole person, the whole family system, whatever is needed from beginning to end Finding a perfect fit treatment center, because it's not one size fits all, it is not fiddle, it is not. Every family has different, whether it's financial needs or insurance or whether the diagnosis is super complex. I need to have a great artillery of treatment centers and practitioners in my pocket, and that's one of the pluses of being old as dirt is that I still travel around and see what treatment centers are doing, what's good, what's not good. So now I get to have a more personal connection.
Speaker 2:I work a lot with another one of my best friends in the field, tara Taylor. We do a lot of tag team interventions together and I think our philosophy and my philosophy as well as the industry, has changed in a little in intervention, in that it's not you're not just intervening on a family member getting them to treatment. You're intervening a family system that's dysfunctional. The system is broken, so you can't. You, you know, my client is actually the family. Yeah, more than it is the person that we're intervening on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, because whether it's codependency, enabling disdain, judgment, whatever it is, something is not working or a lot of time, it's just that multi-generational addiction that gets passed down and the secrets are kept. So when I do intervention, I come in and you work with the whole family way on the front end. A lot of people think intervention is just the one day thing. It's not All the heavy lifting is done on the front end, where you educate the family, help them understand that change is possible for them as well, to go to 30, 60, 90 days to Valiant or someplace and change everything in their life. We kind of have to flip it and say are you willing to change as well?
Speaker 1:So how do you and I don't want to get too far ahead, but I just feel like, in your role, how do you help the family? So I feel like it'd be really easy for the family to be like, okay, this person has an issue, they, they have a problem. Can you come in and help them? They're messed up and, a lot of times, a huge blind spot, because I know valiant is very passionate about this too. Danine is very passionate about the family. Um, I was just talking to my wife this morning and she was talking about her, uh, recovery. Even though she is what you might be called the traumatized or betrayed partner in the situation, she realized through the work we did at Valiant how much work she needed and this is her own words. You know this is not me saying this, but how do you help families realize that there might be something that they need to look at as well, not just the person that you're intervening on?
Speaker 2:And that's a great question, because that is typically the attitude of the family is we're fine, we just need it. Once they get treatment, everything will be great, right, everything will be fine. As the interventionist, I'm not a savior to the family or anyone. I am introducing concepts of therapy, treatment and pointing them in the best direction possible. So I generally, you know, am suggesting, after I do, some education on addiction and family systems. You know you have a therapist, maybe a trauma specialist would be really good for you, mom, because this, you know, finding your son on the floor had to be terrifying. I'm sure you have feelings about that.
Speaker 2:So I usually come in loaded with some resources. I often suggest that families members do whether it's onsite, bridge to recovery, a family program somewhere, and fortunately Valiant has a great family component, so that's kind of taken care of. But I introduced the concept that we're all going to change here. Right, the whole system is going to change and that might look like mom, you're in therapy, dad, you just need some really good education. Maybe everybody needs some Al-Anon. Kids need Betty Ford program, which is you're in therapy, dad, you just need some really good education. Maybe everybody needs some Al-Anon. Kids need Betty Ford program, which is you know there's one in Denver which is amazing A free resource and I'm plugging them in to the best long-term solution for them. My job is to get them to make that call.
Speaker 1:My job is to get them to make that call. Oftentimes we'll do a hey, you've been through a lot You've been. You know now that when you mentioned that I think through that was kind of my wife's path, which was valiant, saying, hey, you might want to get your own CSAT and go to some of these support groups, whatever. And then, as she did that, it started opening up more and more. Oh, maybe there's something I need to look at here, or whatever. So, very practically speaking, so I've only, I've only been a part of one intervention that was my own. So, yeah, right, right, which is the reason why I want to have you on.
Speaker 1:One of the reasons is looking back. It was beautiful, loving, care filled, careful process and experience definitely in the top three of my life, where people came around me when I was very sick and did everything, put their lives on hold to get me the help that I needed. So I think intervention intervention is this big, scary word or you see it on TV or whatever and it's like, at least in my experience, it was powerful and loving and one of the first times I actually looked into someone's eyes and felt compassion my interventionist. The first thing he said to me when I sat down in this room and didn't know what was happening. I just knew my life was crumbling.
Speaker 1:He looked at me and the first thing he said to me when I sat down in this room and didn't know what was happening, I just knew my life was crumbling. He looked at me and the first thing he said was in the most loving, compassionate tone. He said, drew, how long have you been in pain? And I did not expect him to say that I was feeling so much shame and all. So for him to see me in that moment of like you're in pain and to have empathy was huge. So walk us through the process of intervention. If a family member is listening, or a friend, or even someone who's in you know, struggling with addiction, what does this process look like for you?
Speaker 2:Well, your intervention is strong, was fabulous. That set that tone and that is the ultimate goal when I do interventions is to set the tone of love and acceptance, validation, because as addicts and you know I include myself in that we live in shame and we have zero self-esteem. And I like to. You know I do the love for style intervention in general, which is a very loving environment and it there's no forcing anyone anywhere. We're not.
Speaker 1:There's no white van out front, so you know I try to bring the bag over the head and kidnap him with some screaming and you know, the TV show intervention.
Speaker 2:You know it was great that it shined the light on the process, but the way it's been sensationalized is it's a negative. And you know I don't think any good interventionist is modeling after that confrontational method. You know it doesn't work for me. So I set the tone in the front that we are not here to judge anyone. We are here to bring a solution to a health care crisis.
Speaker 2:Addiction is a disease. It's a medical disease. Ama said so in 1955. Mental health is 90% of the time accompanying the addiction, probably higher, probably 99.9%. So we are treating conditions that psychiatrists, doctors, can treat.
Speaker 2:So you know my philosophy is we're going to come in. You are in pain, we see that there's a time for you to tell us about that, but we have some solutions and we are going to help you as a family, come together, support you and get you to the best possible place to treat these conditions, because we love you so much and we need you to be part of this. You are part of us, we are part of you and we are all going to get. Well, I, you know. That's where having the family resourced is helpful, because once the client learns that, oh, his mom is going to get help, his dad is going to get help and maybe you know a sibling that is also struggling is going to get help. You know that there's a path forward. You know we lay it out. You know Each person writes a letter. I review the letters. We do some rehearsals.
Speaker 2:You know there's probably about 20 hours plus on the front end of that intervention and meanwhile I'm looking at the client and trying to find the best possible place for this client. You know a 20-year old male is not going to go to treatment where a 77 year old female is going to go. So I help find programs there are I've been to or would I would go to or send my child to.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:I have a short list and if I'm giving it to a family I trust, trust it. I tell families don't google treatment, never google treatment. Don't read reviews. You wouldn't do it for a heart surgeon, right?
Speaker 1:you wouldn't read a yelp review, that's a great point that could get you in trouble. That just that just says they're good at search engine optimization and, uh, marketing. That doesn't mean they're good at what they do. Yeah, yeah right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know. So the whole thing, you know. We read the letters, we practice the letters, we process the letters. There's so many tears and moments where families have realizations.
Speaker 1:So you're doing a lot of prep work up until the moment. So this isn't a we're walking in kind of cold turkey. No one knows what's going on. It sounds like the family is very.
Speaker 2:It's dialed in, it's 95% done by the time we get to the actual intervention and most interventions 30 minutes an hour tops Really Okay, so they're not very long. No, because the client tends to know what's going on when a group of loved ones get together in a room, they sense what the topic is anyway.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:And I try to disarm them fairly quickly, like your interventionist did, and say like your interventionist did and say you know, there are a lot of people here that love you and want to help you, and I'm just asking for some time to let us discuss some solutions. Please listen. Please listen to what everyone has to say.
Speaker 1:And you've listened to the letters and kind of vetted those a little bit. You've helped them craft what they want to say and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:I have a format that I use for a letter, so everyone stays on script. So there's no kind of you know ad-libbing, because that's when dangerous things happen.
Speaker 1:Well, I imagine it's so emotional, that experience, that if you leave it to just winging it, or speaking from the heart, as you might say, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:Then, yeah, we can go off on tangents. Yeah, so you know it's a format and specific examples are really helpful. You wouldn't say, allow a family member to say you're drunk every weekend, because the client would say, well, in 1989, I was not drunk for three weeks in a row. You would say, last Saturday when I talked to you on the phone, you were slurring your words and I was terrified.
Speaker 1:Very specific.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but you know the end is all wrapped up with. You are such a vital part of this family. We love you so much. I'm waiting for you to walk your sister down the aisle at one point and you bring hope and solution to this person where it's almost a no-brainer.
Speaker 1:So you're painting a picture of what, what could be. So you're, you're forecasting the kind of the future of what we see.
Speaker 2:That's really beautiful yeah, and it's powerful as you say in your intervention, it was a powerful event. It's almost like going to a good old irish wake where everybody stands up and talks about the deceased person and these fabulous stories Some are funny, some are poignant, some are heartfelt, some are sad and you know only you're alive when all these people are saying these fabulous things about you.
Speaker 1:Only you're alive. When all these people are saying these fabulous things about you, it's a very helpless and humbling feeling, almost in a good way, for some of us who have had issues with control and intimacy disorder or whatever. To where You're. For me, I was in a room with people that I had hurt and those same people were saying we love you enough to get you help. It's a very weird feeling. There's there's gotta be a better word than weird, but that's what just came up for me. It's, it's, it's awkward because you're like.
Speaker 1:I feel like I owe you all an apology and at the same time, you're the ones that are extending a helping hand. It's just feels I felt so I was going to say small, but I don't mean that negatively. I just felt very dependent and very humbled and very like I'm not deserving. You know that. It just it's a surreal experience.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing with us alcoholic addict types. Right, we have no self-esteem and we can't believe that someone else would value us. That's where our distorted thinking comes in, and we don't see solution in front of our face. We don't see family that loves us because we don't love ourselves.
Speaker 1:We don't see family that loves us because we don't love ourselves. Wow, Wow, that's. That's what I was trying to say. You said it so much better. That was exactly it. For me it was if I stop performing, or if they know the real me, they're not going to love me. And in that moment they saw the real me and love me anyway.
Speaker 2:Anyway.
Speaker 1:And I didn't know what to do with that. That was new for me got goosebumps.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, that's. That's it in a nutshell drew um. You know we see them and love them. They are us.
Speaker 1:None of us are perfect well and it starts breaking down that, just the, the feeling we, yeah, that's what, yeah, it starts breaking on the wall. It starts that's. It's like one of the very first moments at least in my experience I've, and I with others that I know in intervention, recovery, whatever where you realize that you don't have to perform, you don't, you can be honest, the connection happens in the honesty. It starts breaking down those misconceptions of what showing up to your life looks like. You know, yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a. It's really a beautiful thing. You know the client sometimes will feel that it's a beautiful thing. Sometimes it takes a while for it to be a beautiful thing, but the family is always impacted and you know, people ask me what's the success rate of an intervention and I hate that question but I tend to answer it with it's 100% successful in the fact that a family comes together to start the healing process. They have dialogue they might never have had with each other Grandma's talking to dad, dad's talking to sister. People are all sharing real, honest feelings. There are no. You know, all the secrets are out. There's no, it's a raw, naked feeling for the family that is profound and that is successful. And if we can get the family to the healthy resources and get them connected, get them healed on the healing journey, the client can exist in a healthy system. Right An unhealthy client an unhealthy client.
Speaker 2:So I would say, unless the if, if the client fails to show up, that's it's still successful to the extent that the family has got together. We have a plan. We have plan A, b, c. You know how we're going to reach the client, what we're going to do next. As far as you know, going in the door the success rate tends to be high because you don't do interventions. At every, every phone call, you don't get to do an intervention. Someone got DUI. You know, I would say in the 90%, if you have trained a family and you, the timing is right, it's a high success success rate. But success really to me is bringing the family together to start the healing process.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and I think that's probably for a lot of families and this could be generational and I don't want to over um generalize here, but I think a lot of families. The reason why we we need you and experts like you is because this may be the first time that a family in their family culture is honest and is confronting. And for a lot of these families I look back at my parents' generation and definitely my grandparents' generation they just weren't as connected to their heart. It wasn't as common, especially especially for men, to kind of share how they feel or to share newness or loneliness or whatever the emotion might be. So in a lot of ways, you're probably facilitating these early moments of the whole family learning how to say the things that have been beneath the surface for a long time. Is that true?
Speaker 2:That is so true, it's a hundred percent too. And we're breaking that cycle right. We are breaking the cycle of silence and judgment and shame, and I think what you said about as a male that you, it's harder that I find that to be so very true, and that's why I do like the Valiant program for men, because it really does address that chasm that exists with men being able to express in a family system their feelings and generation is a thing. It is a thing. Client sees grandpa crying.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And dad humbled, yeah, and calm and not judgmental. It's a game changer, yeah, and I do believe that it is a cycle breaker, because things are never the same after that. You can't go back to hiding in secrets yeah of go back to hiding and secrets yeah. So it's a it's a generation cycle busting kind of thing, which it doesn't really get any better than that, does it?
Speaker 1:no, I mean you you kind of get to. I know the work that you do is is it's very difficult and tough and emotional and all those things. But what a gift to be on the ground floor of some of those moments of breakthrough that these families are having that changes a cycle for generations potentially.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's that's pretty special work I, I love, I do love it, I, I do love it, I, you know, I I couldn't do it on my own family. I would have to hire someone for sure, because I'm doing, you know charged.
Speaker 2:but being that objective person I don't know much about the universe's will. For me I know it's to one not drink or use drugs. Two help others. Those are the only two solids that I've got in my life on God's will. And if I can facilitate healing I am not the healer If I can facilitate the process, then that is about as big of heart win as you can get Right I. You know I have grandkids now. I mean they will not grow up in a cycle that I grew up in.
Speaker 2:Right now and past clients that I've had with interventions. Often, I'll you know, I get a call for one member and then a few years later I'll come back and do another one in the same family and that and that's super meaningful. I get updates on weddings. I've gone to weddings.
Speaker 1:I. That has to be pretty special showing up at a wedding oh and I love being wrong.
Speaker 2:When I think a client isn't going to do well in treatment and I hear that they're working at the treatment center, that is like the best feeling of contributing to the greater good that I can imagine, you know well, I'm curious what are some common signs, like if someone's listening or watching this now and they're like I, I think I have a family member, a friend, that might need an intervention.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure, maybe they're not that bad yet or maybe, you know, we start kind of rationalizing. What are some common signs that you've seen that a loved one might need an intervention, and how can families and friends recognize these signs?
Speaker 2:Well, I would say if the addiction has been, you know, significant, there's dangers present dangers to self and others, drunk driving, driving while high, dangers to self and others, drunk driving, driving while high, watching children while intoxicated, or just even neglectful situations, not being able to hold employment, mood swings, mood changes. I do a lot of mental health interventions where marked mood changes, suicidal thoughts, ideations. Generally, when I get a call, things have been bad for a while. I will screen with the family member calling to make sure that this is because you can't undo an intervention right. You don't typically get a second shot.
Speaker 2:So I need to make sure that it's warranted. I need to make sure that we can put a treatment in place. You can't do an intervention without a solution that has to be all stitched up. You can't do it to punish someone, you can't do it to gain custody. So you know it's a screening process. But I would say you know, if a loved one is super struggling, like holding a job, maintaining a relationship, you know, I mean, it seems obvious to those in the field, but to family members it's a slippery line because they've lost that perspective.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, I was thinking. In a lot of cases it may even normalize the behavior, like, oh, that's just so-and-so, that's how they are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they can't lose their job, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, you feel like no, this is not normal behavior.
Speaker 2:We're a little past that. We are past that. Yeah, you know, and you know that's where you know public education is helpful. You know, and I tell family members, there's online screening tests to see for you and loved ones, you know okay but you know, generally a good interventionist is doing a really good screening.
Speaker 2:But it never hurts to call I will talk to anybody and not charge and say, yeah, I think you should find a solution Oftentimes on that first phone call. I suggest they sit down with their loved one and ask them, say hey, you seem like you're really struggling, would you like some help?
Speaker 1:Okay, just start there.
Speaker 2:Start there and they're like oh I, I haven't done that. I said let's start there.
Speaker 1:You know you might be surprised how many people would say, yeah, I could use some, do some help. Literally it it. You just jogged my memory. The morning of my intervention I literally said out loud I wish my friends would do an intervention on me. I felt so stuck and so trapped that I didn't know how to. I couldn't see a clear path and I just wanted friends and family just to like pick me up or just take me out of the situation, get me, get me help yeah, we can barely put our shoes on.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we can barely put our shoes on more than figure treatment out or insurance or anything. You know more or less get in a car. So, um, I like, I I generally suggest that you know, just have a one-on-one with them and see what they say, and you know best case scenario. They say yes, and we start a process that way. That's less you know intervention focused and more you know just session focused. Worst case scenario. They say no, I don't know what you're talking about. And then then I think, okay, well then it might be time to move forward with a more formally organized plan. Uh, you know, but it it never hurts to just just ask just ask.
Speaker 1:That's great, that's great advice. Well, and it's so simple, right Kind of right in front of our nose, but you know there's a lot of fear around this. And what do you say to families who are afraid of like man? If we confront this person, you know what if it means loss of relationship? What if they don't receive it? I'm sure you come up there hesitant, afraid to like, and I know you've talked about this a little bit already.
Speaker 2:But what do you say to those families who are like, like I don't know how this is going to go? You know, I tend to say my truth is that what happens if you don't do anything? Um, because we know chronic is, or addiction is chronic, progressive, fatal if untreated, right and many mental health conditions the same to some extent. So if you don't intervene and nothing changes, nothing changes. Their addiction will get worse or they will continue to be unmedicated. The end is still going to happen. You just get a closer seat to it because you'll be watching it in your home or in your family system.
Speaker 2:I don't often with families, share my personal story of how I got into interventions, and it was a result of my brother's suicide under the influence of drugs and alcohol. He was 40 in my parents' house, living in my parents' house, who thought they were the most doing the best thing for him. They really believed if he found the right job, the right girl, the right treatment program, right. They loved him and he just couldn't stay sober. I was five years sober when it happened and he um and he died in the family home.
Speaker 2:It caused it was, and it spurned me to say, wow, this doesn't have to happen. You know, had we all been tuned in a little bit better, we could have at least given intervention a shot.
Speaker 2:Right least given intervention a shot, right, you know? Would it change the outcome? I don't know. I don't know his soul's journey, but for family members the end is still going to come, whether you're you're watching it or not. So I I've watched family members die in their family home because family members are afraid to confront them, they don't want to hurt their feelings, they're afraid they'll kill themselves. Well, addiction is suicide by installment, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's really helpful perspective because I think a lot of times I think maybe we're afraid, we're just hoping the problem goes away or just gets better on its own or whatever. And you know, especially if there's patterns of codependency or whatever in the family and they're not used to talking about this kind of stuff. But it's helpful perspective to kind of to fast forward a little bit and be like, hey, let's, let's look at the two paths. Yeah, maybe they're upset with you for a minute, but you know, probably in a matter of weeks or months they're thanking you as opposed to continuing down this. You know what could be a really tragic road. And we see it. We see it way too often, I know, in your line of work. You see it all the time.
Speaker 1:You know, it's just unfortunately that is the path.
Speaker 2:It's a reality. It's a reality and you know it's. The families are in denial too, so my job is to walk them through that process and help them reflect back. You know, as best I can, while honoring their truth. Odds are good. Your family member and you aren't getting along great anyway at this point in time.
Speaker 1:That's a good point. How's it working for you? You know that type of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So you know, really caring for someone enough to do an intervention is, in your case, it's the most loving thing to do. It's the best expression of love to bring solution to someone who's suffering yeah it is the most loving thing you can do yeah, yeah, so good.
Speaker 1:So what if? What if someone is resistant? What if it? You know, you talk about your success rate and I think we already redefined success. Success is not, you know, it's the family coming together but say you have an intervention and they're like no, I don't have a problem, no, I'm not going, no, I'm not Whatever. What then?
Speaker 2:Well, you know, oftentimes the client will change their mind in a couple of days. They just need, they don't like to be put on the spot. So they need a couple of days and they realize if the family is holding some healthy boundaries which you know, I've educated them on, helped prep them. We all have a common ground on that If the family is holding the boundary, it's a matter of time before the client tends to go to treatment at least at some level, Because their life becomes pretty uncomfortable when the family system is healthy. They can't operate, they can't get money from dad or grandma, they can't eat food out of the cupboard at free will and make a mess because now mom is saying, hey, you're going to have to pay rent, You're 25.
Speaker 2:There's some what I call bottom lines. I tend not to talk about bottom lines in that primary intervention. I don't want to put up any barriers right out of the gate, but if a client is resistant I usually frame it as I hear what you're saying and I can respect your choice to your decision. I understand that and as a result of that choice that you are making right now, your family is also making decisions that involve you and they may or may not affect you, not affect you. I'd like for you to hear what their healthy path forward looks like, what their recovery plan looks like, because each member has a recovery plan. So once they hear that the family is might do a family program somewhere that tends to get their attention.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, that feels picked on like it's not just me. We're all going to do something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if they feel like mom and dad are going to be or you know husband or spouse is going to be engaged in treatment services, it makes them a little bit nervous, like, wow, what happens if they get healthy? I need to get healthy too.
Speaker 1:I didn't think about that, yeah think about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, um, you know, we just talk about the family members and loved ones healing, recovery path forward, um, and that tends to often change the outcome gotcha in a day or two.
Speaker 2:um, I would say it's almost rare where a client doesn't engage in some service within a couple of weeks, a month, of an intervention. An intervention is profoundly impactful. Sure, have there been instances where the addict moves on, gets a divorce, says okay, fine, I'm going to just keep drinking or gambling or whatever. Has it happened? Yeah, yeah. But at least the loved one can say I did everything I could to bring solution to this. I did everything I could to save the marriage or save the relationship and to offer hope and healing and good health.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I did that. I didn't stand around, I did something. So if that person chooses not to, they can at least say I did what I could do. I kept my side of the street clean and tried to help you with yours, and you are choosing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, and to your point, I. There's very few addicts that I've seen who are at that point, who are just loving their life and just like you, know what Life is amazing right now, and this is great. Most of them are stuck, they're trapped or they're miserable. So this is a. This is a real. That intervention for me was one of the lowest moments of my life, but it was also one of the biggest reliefs. It was like finally I can start to get help. Yeah, it was just almost like a weight was lifted. Now I knew I had a tremendous amount of work ahead of me, but at least I knew I had a path.
Speaker 2:It's that, that, that glimmer of hope. And I and I, I wholeheartedly agree. It's that glimmer of hope because we can't see it as addicts. We can't. Yeah, Our brains do not allow us to see a future. You know, we're just getting through day to day. So I love how you frame that, but it is a profound experience, for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, let me, just because I want to be respectful of your time. This is so great. Thank you for doing this. This is amazing, but I do have a couple. Is it okay if I ask you a couple more questions? I?
Speaker 2:don't want to be selfish here. Yes, sure.
Speaker 1:You mentioned earlier about post-intervention. Unpack that a little bit, because I imagine you don't just zoom in. Do this intervention Zoom out? No it, because I imagine you don't just zoom in, do this intervention?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, how does that? What does that look like for you? You know, typically after an intervention we'll do a little bit of a debrief right on site there, um, and we'll say, okay, how's everybody feeling? How did how did that make you feel, do you, you know, will everyone just kind of process some things, get it out? A lot of tears, hugging, and we're shuffling someone off, either to catch a plane or to Valiant or to the appropriate treatment center. So it's kind of a high. And then, typically a day or two after, we'll either do a Zoom or in-person or organized meeting of okay, where are we at Um, he's in treatment.
Speaker 2:Has anyone you know heard? I will typically get a release. So I if, if the release allows, I can share with the family how their loved one's doing. If they haven't heard, I can share with the family how their loved one's doing if they haven't heard. We just kind of come down after a couple days, after everyone's had a good night's sleep, and we process a little bit more, and then I am reminding them about their wellness plan. I am reminding them OK, mom, you have this appointment this day. You know, husband and wife, you're going to go do this program and every you know kids are set to go to this weekend to Betty Ford.
Speaker 2:We keep moving forward with their individual and joint recovery plans. You know, um, and then we, you know, have already talked about what happens after treatment, and I many treatment centers, like Valiant in particular, once the client gets in, they start talking about what's next. You know not. Oh, 30, 60, 90, you're good to go. Okay, after this, what you know, let's, let's talk about your other potentials to move forward. What are we? What are we looking at?
Speaker 1:Potentials to move forward. What are we looking at? And so I'm gone for 90 days there. I mean, my wife is now got four kids. She's I mean she's to have someone that's helping, walk her through what she needs and to remind her hey, care for yourself.
Speaker 1:You know, and a lot, of, a lot of their minds is like well, you, you went off to a spa a spa camp and you get the 90 day and now I got to hold down the fort and you know, pick up, you know the pieces of what you left behind, all that kind of stuff, and so there's so much care that's needed for the family in the aftermath of an intervention. But sometimes we need someone like yourself who's reminding us and holding us accountable to our own self-care. I imagine that's a pretty big deal.
Speaker 2:A hundred percent, a hundred percent. I mean, that's so true that each family member continue on their journey. And self care is so important, you know and it's a word thrown around a lot, and it doesn't just mean massages and and meditation. It means doing the hard work too of therapy, doctor's appointments, all the things that family members neglected on themselves while, you know, trying to manage their loved one's addiction Totally, totally, you know. So, yeah, so we keep on track, we keep it tight, and I love talking with clients and family. So you know, I pretty much I allow them to contact me. You know, text whatever, it's all part of the whole thing. You know it's not a one and done, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:What's the best way for people that are listening, watching now, what's the best way for them to get a hold of you? Is you? Should we go to your website?
Speaker 2:you know I I only do word of mouth, so I don't have a website um and everyone at valiant knows how to get a hold of me. I'm really good with the texts um. I have references too, um.
Speaker 1:But you know, stein wellness at stein wellnesscom or stein wellness at gmail is probably the one I open the most okay let's go with stein wellness at gmail stein wellness at gmailcom, or get in touch with us here at valiant if you you're looking for an interventionist.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100% or just consultation or you know I do a lot of just you know, wellness services consultation of someone saying, hey, I want to find a treatment center, Can you help me do that? And they don't need an intervention, they just need help. Absolutely, I can do that. I do sober coaching, sober companion work as well, so it's kind of a whole spectrum, yeah, which has been finally coming to the forefront in our field. Used to just be therapy and treatment. That was it, so now it's, you know, full spectrum yeah, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:So final word, final question what encouragement would you have families that are listening today, struggling, what encouragement would you have for them to take that first step in seeking the help that they might need?
Speaker 2:treatment center. Just making a phone call can feel like a positive change. Odds are really good that you're going to be met with someone who has a compassionate heart answering the phone, and if they're not, hang up and try another number, but just make a call and ask some questions. There's no harm in a phone call. Worst case scenario you wasted 10 minutes. Best case scenario you feel a little hope and you can get a plan. You know, just reach out to a trusted doctor or friend. Don't be alone in it, don't sit on it, don't be alone. You don't have to be alone, you know that's a great word.
Speaker 1:Well, Wendy, thank you so much. Thank you for the work you do. I know it's not easy, but it's. It's making a difference in a lot of people's lives, and thank you for sharing with us today.
Speaker 2:You are welcome. My friend drew.
Speaker 1:We'll have to do another one on more Deneen stories. Maybe we'll talk offline on Deneen stories. How about that?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, oh my God, yeah, we'll get them good Thanks.
Speaker 1:Wendy. Well, we appreciate you listening to this episode of the Valiant Living Podcast and our hope is that it helped you feel educated, encouraged and even empowered on your journey towards peace and freedom. If we can serve you or your loved one in any way, we'd love to have a conversation with you. You can call 720-756-7941 or email admissions at valiantlivingcom. At Valiant Living, we treat the whole person so you not only survive, but you thrive in the life you deserve. And finally, if this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean a lot to us if you'd subscribe and even share it with your friends and family. You can also follow along with us on Instagram and Facebook by simply searching Valiant Living. Thanks again for listening and supporting the Valiant Living podcast. We'll see you next week.
