Valiant Living Podcast
Welcome to the Valiant Living Podcast where we educate, encourage, and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom. Valiant Living offers hope and transformational change to men and their families struggling with addiction and mental health challenges. On this podcast you’ll hear from the Valiant team as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at (720)-756-7941 or email admissions@valiantliving.com We’d love to have a conversation with you!
Valiant Living Podcast
Valiant Victories: Rebuilding Trust and Overcoming Addiction Together (w/ Dave & Carla A.)
What happens when love, addiction, and recovery intersect? Join us as we welcome Dave and Carla, who recount their extraordinary 21-year journey that began with a chance meeting at the San Francisco airport. Carla reflects on the thoughtful nature of Dave that won her heart early on, while they both share memories of a life filled with travel and joy. However, their idyllic beginning faced an unexpected storm as Dave’s addiction rapidly intensified, leading to immense challenges as they navigated the pressures of merging their lives and Dave’s business decisions.
Carla and Dave’s story doesn’t end in hardship but transforms into a tale of resilience and recovery. Carla reveals how her approach matured over the years, from walking on eggshells around Dave’s addiction to establishing clear boundaries and taking decisive action. The couple emphasizes the critical role of family involvement and community support in the recovery process, with special acknowledgment of programs like Valiant’s family night. Dave opens up about his rough patches and the unwavering support from Carla and their daughter Coco, illustrating the power of mutual support, clear communication, and set boundaries.
In the final part of our conversation, the focus shifts to rebuilding trust and the delicate balance of tough love with genuine care. Dave explains his decision to seek help at Valiant and underscores how trust played a pivotal role in his recovery. Carla distinguishes between being in recovery and simply being sober, highlighting the importance of community involvement and personal choice. They share their experiences of navigating tough love, reestablishing family traditions, and maintaining an open door for support, showing that life's challenges can be tackled with shared experiences and relentless effort. Tune in to be inspired by their compelling story and learn the collective effort required to sustain a supportive environment for recovery.
Hey guys, can we say thanks again to Dave and Carla for doing this. This is kind of a big deal, Especially especially Carla.
Speaker 2:I think this is great to have her.
Speaker 1:I wanted them to come share their story because, whether you're you know, whether you're married, whether you have a partner, whether someone is being affected by our addiction at some level. So Carla is the kind of stand in to represent that. Um, so Carla is a kind of a stand in to represent that, and you guys have done a lot of hard work together. Um and so, uh, really grateful for you guys being here to be able to share some of your story, and then I'm going to ask them some questions. But I really want you to be thinking of your own questions, cause I think some of the good stuff comes when you're asking, uh, your own own questions for yourself, and so we'll, we'll make sure we'll carve a good 10 minutes at the end here. Is that okay with you?
Speaker 3:guys, I didn't ask you about that, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Dave's a planner, so he's the first interview that has notes and all kinds of stuff ready to go. Tell us a little bit, just your story.
Speaker 4:How did you meet? Oh wow, it's a pretty fun story. We met in the San Francisco airport. We were, um, we met in the san francisco airport. Um, we were both flying out, uh, here from denver. I was with some buddies, we were going to a, uh, a wedding up in napa. Carla was heading out there on business and we're, um, my buddies and I were. We were on vacation. You know, we're going to a friend's wedding, so we were, it was. It was on early, uh, that day you know what I?
Speaker 4:mean, so we get down, we get down to the baggage claim and Carla comes down the escalator. You know, I, my buddies more than me, we're kind of like, well, you know, kind of doing that thing and and we, we walked over the rental car thing together and we just started chatting and next thing led to another exchange, exchanged numbers and that stuff and got connected when we got back to Denver and started dating then and the rest is history.
Speaker 1:What was the first thing you remember about seeing Dave in the airport?
Speaker 3:He was the organizer of this group. So even to this day, Wow, shocker. Yeah, he's the concierge. He'd planned the whole trip. He was the one that orchestrated the rental car. We all got off on the wrong stop and he's the one that got us to the right stop.
Speaker 3:But he was very thoughtful as well, and so in this brief conversation I had told him I was a runner and I ran with a group out of Wash Park, and so when I got back to town that following Saturday he sent me a little text before I ran and said just have a good run. So just that thoughtfulness was really nice.
Speaker 1:Nice day.
Speaker 3:And he still remembers the flight number and probably the day that we probably met Pretty much.
Speaker 4:Yeah, this is back in the day when texting wasn't even you know. You're trying to go through all the letters.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh.
Speaker 1:It took me like an hour to get that text yeah, so it was even more romantic than what I'm used to. Yeah, exactly like an hour to get that text, so it was even more romantic than what I'm going to type out a text like that Absolutely.
Speaker 4:So, yeah, so this is so. That was uh. It was 21 years ago.
Speaker 1:Let's say okay, You've been together 21 years ago that we met.
Speaker 4:we got married two years later, Um, so we've been married for 19 years.
Speaker 1:So I know there's a lot we could talk about a lot, but I want to fast forward the story a little bit to talk a little bit. What was a little bit? So talk a little bit. What was, what was life like, kind of pre addiction or in the addiction, kind of walk us through that process. Um, as far as, what was that like for you guys? What was life looked like in the early years of marriage?
Speaker 4:Well, our, our dating time was and I'll get into this but when, when my addiction really took its hold, it came like a wildfire. It was quick, really, oh yeah. So our dating time before we got married was pretty regular, pretty normal. We did a lot together, we traveled together, we drank together. I didn't drink a whole lot then. I still have my occasional blowouts with the guys on the weekends. There was a couple instances I probably went a little too far.
Speaker 4:But we hung out a lot together and really enjoyed ourselves and we would enjoy a glass of wine and this kind of thing. We were married in 2005. Things were still kind of a lot was happening. Actually. We got married and neither of us been married. We're 40 years old, um, you know, and here we are. We've been independent our whole lives, um, and then we're trying to mesh these two lives. You know, we're kind of everyone. You know, we've kind of been kind of didn't really have to answer to anybody or you know at that point and so on. So so it was, it was a new, it was a lot of newness to it. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:So, and then when we got to, then I.
Speaker 2:Just the same year we got married.
Speaker 4:I bought out these business partners. So a lot, a lot was happening, very stressful, a lot going on. So again, I still wasn't, you know, I didn't drink. Again, I still wasn't, you know, I didn't drink. I never drank during the week for like 15 years Okay, for just my whole kind of business career and never kept booze in the house just because I didn't, not that I didn't was afraid to drink it, I just didn't do it.
Speaker 4:And then it kind of slowly kind of started, you know, with these business things and kind of getting married. Carla got pregnant with Coco at the beginning of 2006. And the business I had these two business partners which drove me nuts and it just it didn't go well. And and that's when I kind of just started, you know, and actually I knew I found myself drinking at night, um, found myself drinking during the day for the first time you know ever, other than being, like a sporting event or something, having a beer at a ball game. Uh, you know, carla, you know obviously found all my hiding places and you know all that kind of stuff and all my uh, um, and really figured it out so even then you knew like, hey, this is probably a little, this is too much, oh, oh, absolutely, you start.
Speaker 4:You knew it, I knew it I knew it because it was like I said. It literally happened like a wildfire and it kicked in fast. And this was about what year? This was 2006.
Speaker 1:What was that time period like for you, Barbara?
Speaker 3:So I'd never been around. Addiction, quite frankly and I think probably the hardest thing for me to reconcile was I didn't see David drink, but then his behavior was really odd, right. I couldn't explain, like how could he be behaving this way if I'm not seeing him drink? And, quite frankly, when I became pregnant, my sense of smell became really acute, and that's when I picked up on it and really just gained awareness. When we dated, one of the things we really did, though, was to get to know each other's families, so I was really fortunate in that I was able to reach out to his parents, as well as to my parents, to just create some sanity around the situation as best I could, because it's a very lonely place, and you know I would. If there's no other message you hear from me tonight, I would want you to know that it's spotlights not just on you, it really is everyone in your community, your family, going through this journey and everyone has to change.
Speaker 3:And that's, I think, really important and that's something that I've really grown. I think initially, in those early days, you know it was all about what does David have to do and what's his recovery look like and you know how's he going to fix this. And 20 years later, I would tell you that as a family and our daughter we've been very open with her From a very early age. We'd use appropriate language, but we did not hide it. That is the one thing I felt like we needed to really be very honest, live a life of honesty. And so we're all going through this journey and it's a journey, right, there's not perfection. You know. There are good days. There are some days I take a step back and say I could have done that better. I'm going to do better tomorrow, right, like that 1% theory that I'm going to do 1% better.
Speaker 3:And imagine over a lifetime where you'll end up If you just have that mindset.
Speaker 1:Yeah, First of all, that's incredible. Can I ask a follow-up question to that? Unpack a little bit, because you talked about how you changed, which I think it's incredible? First of all because I always say for me the same is true, Like I've seen my wife and my kids have to change and adapt to kind of this new way of living, but I never had the expectation that they had to. Like, I always felt ashamed of this. This was my issue and I've brought this into their lives. But now they have chosen to do their own work and to change. Can you tell me a little bit about some, even maybe drill down a little deeper into what? What kind of work did you do that you didn't have to do to, to embrace this new way of living?
Speaker 3:Yeah, showing up really curious, I think, is what I naturally do in life. I'm always wanting to learn. So, david, his first program that he went to and he was kind of forced to go right Like we had this small baby and his parents came out and it was like you either go or you know we're walking. Essentially, we went to Italy without him and I would say one of the things that I've always done is put very clear boundaries around the disease and you know there was this decision do we stay? And he was in the best place at Cedar. I couldn't help him and he was where he needed to be and also we needed to move forward with life and hopefully he was going to catch up with us, but it was really important.
Speaker 1:So you drew kind of a line in the sand, and I still do.
Speaker 3:One of the big differences, though, from 20 years ago is I walked around the disease right Like on eggshells. I wouldn't address things head on, I didn't want to upset him, and I would say today the sound reads are even clearer and I even have a visualization of what the disease looks like. David knows I call it the monster. I even have a visualization of what the disease looks like. David knows I call it the monster, and I will tell him when I think he is falling out of his recovery and say don't open the door for the monster, You've got to get right back in and do your work.
Speaker 3:And so I have a visualization of what it looks like. But I think that's really important is he knows we don't expect perfection, Like we had his recovery plan in the kitchen, like it's front and center. And we've had to go to it to say what are we going to do?
Speaker 4:What are?
Speaker 3:this. You know what have been the commitments. I had my own recovery plan too, and I would say that 20 years ago again, it was more of what was David going to do. Now I have very clear boundary, I have very clear action. If something happens, where would I choose? What am I going to do? You know, valiant, and I don't know if they start doing this they have the family program on Wednesday nights.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that still happens.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I loved that program and I would really encourage your loved ones to jump on. They don't. It could be spouse, it could be parents, it could be children, but it's just a great community for your family to be able to do the work that they need to do as well while you're getting the work that you need, because if you change and they don't, there's going to be a gap there, and so I think it's really really important for me to understand how I can support David and how he can support us as well.
Speaker 1:So I have a lot of questions on your behalf that I want to ask and a follow-up to that, but I'm going to leave that be and give you time to ask that, because there's a lot I want to because I think it's really special what you've done and also can be not common, and so I'm sure there's guys that might have questions or even some feedback on what do we do to help. Let me put it this way I didn't feel like I was in a place to suggest to my wife to go to another group.
Speaker 1:And so there's a lot there. But I'm curious for you, dave when you hear Carla talk about all that, what comes up for you? What does it make you think?
Speaker 4:No, that's all accurate. It may have come across to you guys. For those that know, carl, I mean we're very uh she's very matter of fact tough cookie, quite frankly, right and you know I hope that didn't come across as, like you know, she was demanding and very, you know, and and very overpowering, overwhelming.
Speaker 3:And because it wasn't it really wasn't.
Speaker 4:you know, the first time I went through and back up just a little bit, it was 2007. I went to Cedar and came out of that and, man, I jumped in the program. I was in it, you know, and Carla was doing stuff and we were sharing some things but then I hit a pretty rough patch, you know, after a few years being out at Cedar and you know, and that's when I wasn't you know, nothing was kind of happening you know, from my perspective, carla got to know one of my sponsors.
Speaker 4:We all kind of hung out. You know we did that and I heard it a bunch of times tonight already, but when? I'm involved in a community of guys and you know the community groups and Carla knows that One of her favorite terms is it takes a village right.
Speaker 4:And so when I hear her say that you know it's more of your question is you know we are in this together, you know, and like she said, I mean I, you know. When I say I went to, had a rough patch, you know I was in a couple of detox here and there and some things, but guess who showed up every single night? Carla and Coco. You know what I mean. So I mean and I'll never forget that stuff. And so I know, I know that they were doing, they were not being judgmental of me or anything like that, they not being judgmental of me or anything like that. They just wanted the right things.
Speaker 4:And, to take it even to fast forward quite a bit, what has truly really helped is when Carla talks about the family program here is there was periods of time where I would just. That's why I'm so happy she's here tonight. I tell her all the time. You know, gee, I had a great meeting today, aa meeting, end of story, right, you know this and that and that and this. But for her to see kind of what we do, you know, and what we talk about, and the kind of things, the kind of struggles that everyone has and all that stuff is huge. So at Valiant, jill had us come in and I wrote a three-month plan that's what she's talking about, it's right in here and Coco and Carla came in and we all went through it and we read it. We spent two hours. There's tears, there's all kinds of things going on, but there was agreed-upon stuff. It was, and there was some tough love that had to happen.
Speaker 4:There was some tough agreements that had to happen. You know, when Carla talks about her boundaries, you know I had to, and you guys I hope you're getting some of this message while you're here is, guess, what you got needs too.
Speaker 4:You know you have boundaries that you're going to need to set and so that was something that we shared in that plan, you know, because it can feel like it's one way and that's why I said I wanted to make sure that Brother's Message didn't feel like it was. I felt I never felt it was a one-way recovery.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's good, it's really good.
Speaker 3:Anything else you want to add, I would just say so, you're right. I don't know if you could pick up the phone and say, hey, valiant's got this great program for families. Why don't you give it a go? But who you can be your voice in, that is the counselors that are working with your family and they can make those suggestions right.
Speaker 3:So here's a professional that can come in and say this is something that Valiant offers. Why don't you attend? And it really is outstanding and there's a sense of community that develops there, like I know Brady's parents because of it. It's great. We would show up every week and it's really wonderful. And so it's just think about it doesn't always have to be your voice. You've got a whole village behind you that can really support you.
Speaker 4:Can I say one more?
Speaker 3:thing, Please.
Speaker 4:Yeah, one other thing on that that you made me think of that is, you know, having those programs and getting involved in those. It was new to all of us, right when, all of a sudden addiction.
Speaker 4:When I first came in Right and outside of Carla and my immediate family, it was all of a sudden all these experts right, who didn't know a damn thing about addiction or recovery, but they were all of a sudden experts telling me what to do, right, and you run up against some of that stuff. Okay, just if you I don't know if that's a caution or something but take advantage of what's available to you here. Take advantage of the peers that you've met in the I like the word you always use in the seasons that you're kind of here and certainly this alumni meeting.
Speaker 1:Well, I've heard Deneen also talk, and Pete, you can correct me on this if I had to turn. But you know, a lot of times for us guys it takes us being willing to go first and show up and oftentimes there's there's, you know, betrayed or traumatized, uh, partners that have as much, if not more, work to do, but they're not going to do it until they till we show up and start doing the work ourselves, and then a lot of times they'll follow suit on that. And so I just want to be, um, have empathy for the fact that a lot of times, like even in my case, I was like I went through this phase where man, my wife, is perfect and she's wonderful and great. Also, I had to realize that after 20 years of marriage, the codependency that she's had, that she has as a coping mechanism to deal with an addict, is a lot for her Like. So it's not even her fault that there's trauma there, but she's had to do a lot of work too. So I just want guys to hear that as well.
Speaker 1:And I'd love for you guys to speak a little bit on rebuilding trust post rehab or treatment, because if, if you're like me, a lot of times we get done with treatment, rehab, and I put this expectation on myself that I had to show up and prove to the people around me that I'm different and I almost felt like I can't be human If I make a mistake or I get angry or whatever. Oh look, he's the same old person. Like I wanted so bad for my family to see that I've changed. I am different now and there was a certain pressure there. I think when we do the work, naturally change. Change happens and thankfully my family saw some of that change. But I would love to hear y'all's story. As far as the coming home, you know we got a lot of guys we heard are leaving. They're going to be integrating back into life with friends and family. What is the rebuilding trust process?
Speaker 4:looks like for you guys.
Speaker 4:This is a little bit of a tag on to what we were just talking about a minute ago, but, um, you know, before going to Valiant, when we talk about this as a family thing, I had to, I had to make a serious commitment, right, cause I had gone before you know about, uh, eight, 17 years before that and, uh, we talked about it.
Speaker 4:We talked about the commitment I'm making, you know, to go to Valiant and all the things that we didn't know what the outcomes would be, but certainly had some expectations, right, and that would be around, you know, around trust. We had just gone through a period of time where Carla, you know, where she mentioned the word monster earlier yeah, the monster was getting me. You know, for a period of time where Carla, you know, where she mentioned the word monster earlier yeah, I was the monster was getting me, you know, for a period of time right before going to Valiant. And so I had to make, I had to make that commitment and I was committed and certainly this plan helps, right, and Carla is a very visual person, you know. So, having that, you know, there were so many times I would have said, hey, I'm going to a meeting and maybe I wasn't going you know what I mean and or most of the time I did, 99% of the time I did, probably hopefully, um, but uh sounds like a conversation on the car in the way.
Speaker 4:Open up. Open up a can of worms. So what day was that you didn't go to that meeting of worms? So what day was that that you didn't go to that meeting? But you know, I look back and you know, I knew, you know, all the times in my recovery it was AA and AA and that kind of stuff and sponsors and everything. But there was always something inside of me I knew that was missing, because I would always have these emotional you know, I may not have been drinking, but I was just have these emotional relapses, mental relapses or something. And so I knew there was something deep down that I had to get to and I need, I want, I need to. And Carla and I talked about this. We we kind of reconnected with Deneen a few years ago, um, and so we were kind of just curious about his program. So we were talking to him and we knew I had to get somewhere.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so, to get to the trust thing. Carla trusts Michael. You know I he was my sponsor, not my sponsor, my counselor back at Cedar, okay. So known him for 18 years but kind of drifted away but then for various reasons we got connected again but we so we trust him, you know, and so that's kind of that. That alone kind of started to help rebuild that trust again, because he talked about the program and I was like he explained it to us.
Speaker 1:He came and kidnapped me and brought me there His favorite thing to do right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, exactly. But I first off I put my trust in him and the program and Vian as well, and Carla had Vian to the program also, so that trust right there was very helpful. And so then getting home, having this plan in, place was huge.
Speaker 1:Carla, what did you need to see from Dave post-treatment to rebuild trust?
Speaker 3:Before I answer that, I would say David made the call to Michael. I did not. I was so clear in probably what was going to be the right step for him. But I have also learned in my journey I can't make those decisions. I think that it's really important to believe in David and in each one of you that you own your recovery, and it's really important to step forward and make the right decisions for yourself. So that was really.
Speaker 3:That was the difference In all of the other programs. We were kind of telling David what he needed to do, like he needed to get help. This time it's like you have two choices you can get help, and at that point he wasn't in the house. I had a rule because we had a child, he drank, he. And at that point he wasn't in the house. I had a rule because we had a child, he drank. He was not in the house, he went and lived at a hotel. And so I was like you have a couple of choices here. You can stay out of the house and Coco and I will be fine, we'll figure this out or you can go get the help that you need, and so it was really his choice. I would say I've observed the difference between being in recovery versus being sober, and there's a huge difference there and when you're in recovery.
Speaker 4:You are working it.
Speaker 3:You're in your community, You're very vocal. You know if it's not addiction, it's going to be something else that life throws at you. So really I hope, like all of us, just have this sense of we're in it together. We believe in each other and it's okay to talk about it. And I think if you look at how many celebrities now are coming forward with their story, it's really becoming okay to tell your story. Everyone has a story and to know the hard work you're putting into it is really important for other people to hear. So when I see David talking about it and involved in his community really important. And myself, right, Like my friends all know I don't hide it from them Like the disease wants to isolate you. So I've also learned that I need to step forward and be really vocal. In my story and what we're doing as a family To build trust was important for us to reestablish some traditions. So you know, I would say health is really an important piece of just having a good life right.
Speaker 3:So whether it's exercising, going on our walks together as a family, golfing like, we have a tradition now, every Sunday we go golf as a family Religion, super important. So when David was at Valiant, they started going to Red Rocks Church. So he kind of. You know, I'm very Catholic so I'm used to. You know, I love Latin mass. Give me more ritual, though I'm in it.
Speaker 1:That was a shock. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 3:And so they kept on talking about you know, red Rocks, right, and then Coco, her high school. A lot of kids go to Red Rocks, so her and Coco is actually the one she will not miss Sunday. She's like, no, we have got to go. That's part of our tradition. Now, I think is really important eating healthy. We eat dinner together as a family probably six nights a week, and so it doesn't have to be big things, it's just those little things that bring you together, that just create trust and experience. I think is really important.
Speaker 1:Gosh, that's so good. So I'm going to pause here because I want you guys to ask questions. I want to make sure there's enough time for that Cause I'm only about 10% down through my list of questions here. Cause this is so good, we're going to have to do a part two, but I want to save space and honor your time too. So any any questions for for Dave and Carla? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, hi. My name is Frank. Married for 14 years with two kids. I made the decision to come to Valiant myself. I drove that decision and so far I've been having the therapist encourage my wife to attend the Wednesday night programs. She's been finding some excuses, I think not to. How do I handle that? What would you suggest that I do when I'm? And I just heard you say some people? You know you have to make your own decisions about these things, but I think it's a good thing for her. I don't know how to handle that.
Speaker 4:And what would you guys recommend? Let me say something Again. We're fortunate and valiant to. I've been in recovery for a long period of time, had a lot of many, many, many good years, and the first time, you know, the first time it was terrifying right. So I totally can relate to what your wife might be thinking, or you kind of having some unknowns on how to handle that. But I hope it works out and I'll let her kind of take over that part.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I can understand. It's probably new to her, right, and she probably is like those people have three heads over there. I'm normal, right. She's probably thinking I'm normal, you know I've got there, I'm normal, right? She's probably thinking I'm normal, you know I've got this, I'm okay.
Speaker 3:And you also have to remember when you guys pick up and go into a program for 90 days like we're left to kind of figure out life and make it keep on moving right, like when he went into the program our daughter wasn't driving, so all of a sudden overnight I had to quickly pivot and say, okay, how am I going to get her to school back and forth? And that's where I learned I had to let people around me know what I needed in order to get through it. You know we have the alumni event coming up in September. It's a picnic, maybe something like that to get her around, like us would be really good for her to see that. You know there's a community here and I love to use the word Red Rocks uses this phrase but we're all imperfect beings striving for a perfect God, right, and so we all have our imperfections, but we're all working really hard and just that support, so that might be a really nice way.
Speaker 3:I'd also say the counselor. I mean I had a great relationship with our counselor and I know some people didn't Like some people really were like I never heard from my counselor. But you have to advocate. I have learned too Like I didn't leave it to chance I'd pick up the phone if I hadn't, and so then they got into this routine weekly We'd chat about what was going on, which was really important. So I would say also, when you have your one-on-ones, they share. Valiant's great about sharing across the team. I'd let them know that that's maybe a struggle and can they help influence your wife.
Speaker 3:Now I have to say I'm not one for Elanon. I didn't like those meetings. I went to a couple and it wasn't just it just wasn't where I was going to find my recovery. But I do find the Wednesday Brooke is amazing, that leads it and just it's. You know she's an academic but she's been through recovery herself, her son's addicted, so there's just a real lot of life experience. I still go like sometimes they're shocked when I show up, but I will always learn Like there's always something I pick up in the meetings. So I hope maybe in September that would be great. The picnic's really a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:Thank you Very special. What else, what else yeah.
Speaker 1:I was just curious. Like you said, you guys met, got married two years later and then kind of started, you know, putting on the weeknights and you were drinking during the day.
Speaker 4:I was just curious, like in terms of the behaviors that were going along with that. Was it kind of like being more secretive, like being less communicative, just like? Yeah, what did that quick progression look like? All of the above, you know, absolutely, it was, as Carla even said. You know she noticed the behaviors. You know she didn't see me drinking. You know you know shoving my mouth with gum and corn nuts, right.
Speaker 2:And anything you can get to kind of mask. Don't give out any secrets. I'm sure I can learn a few things from them too.
Speaker 4:But you know, it was, yes, I, I, I knew I I could sense it, but I didn't know what to do. I literally had no clue what to do and and so in it it cratered fast, um and yeah, so it was all of the above. I mean, I'm normally a pretty flatline guy, pretty, pretty, pretty, uh easy, but man, I was just, uh, it was, it was so out of my I was. I'm normally a pretty flatline guy, pretty, pretty, pretty easy, but man, I was just, it was. It was so out of my I was, my behavior was so erratic and so so, unlike me, you know, I was just, I just changed no-transcript and I knew I was done. So he took one look at me and just looked me in the eye and said, okay, now I see what's going on. So it was obvious, you know, it was very apparent, yep.
Speaker 2:Good question. Yeah, you know, really a thank you to both of you. That's all you know, at least for me. I think a whole lot more there are eyes on you guys. You've all seen. I know I have seen some real heartbreak in some marriages go up in flames, complete death spirals and real sadness and carnage. Thankfully there's some successful issues. At first, dave and I were kind of sat next to each other in the room there. You develop a bond with your peers. When the house gets down, I'm like man Carla, she's harsh, she's hardly done anything.
Speaker 3:You know he's a fireboy compared to what I did.
Speaker 2:I'm the nicest guy in the world. What's up with it? And then I kind of figured out, I think they used the word one of them tough love, and there was some tough love, but there was some love. I was like, oh, my God.
Speaker 3:So yeah, there's some ground rules.
Speaker 2:There was some tough love, but there was some love. There's some ground rules. There's some guardrails, but that door is open For a lot of people. That door, they pushed it too far. That door got shut. I don't know about the other person. If there's any way, you guys can continue to share that. Here's how success can work out. You know you could save families. Basically I'm not going to be dramatic, but you know it doesn't have to end in a trail of tears in a horror show. Thank you, guys for showing us the way it can work.
Speaker 4:Well thanks, pete. Well said, yeah, that means a lot and it's yeah, it can work. Well thanks, pete. Well said, yeah, that means a lot and it's yeah, it's hard work, you know. So you all understand that it is hard work and it's never it doesn't end. You know it doesn't mean we still don't have. You know there's, you know life's still happening. So, but yes, and being able to do this and share this with all you guys helps us tremendously too. You know, not just us just kind of sitting up here talking to you. So you guys will certainly understand that as you kind of get further, you know, get further along, that um, being able to share your stories and and see, see things that happen and, uh, bring joy to your lives and it's a good thing.
