Valiant Living Podcast
Welcome to the Valiant Living Podcast where we educate, encourage, and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom.
Valiant Living has been restoring lives and families since 2017 by providing multiple levels of care for men and their families. Fully accredited by The Joint Commission, Valiant Living has earned a national reputation as a premier treatment program, offering IOP, PHP, and recovery housing programs for men ages 26 and older. Founder and CEO MIchael Dinneen is a nationally recognized therapeutic expert, speaker, and thought leader in the behavioral health field.
On this podcast you’ll hear from the Valiant team as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at (720)-756-7941 or email admissions@valiantliving.com We’d love to have a conversation with you!
Valiant Living Podcast
Valiant Victories: Dan Meyer's Journey from Athletic Ambitions to Guiding Light in Addiction Recovery
From the rich soil of a Northwest Ohio farm to the heart of Valiant Living’s recovery community, Dan Meyer's story unfolds with raw honesty and deep insight. Our latest episode features this beloved therapist and program alumnus, affectionately known as Coach or Uncle Dan, who shares the riveting tale of his transformation from an athlete with coaching dreams to a guiding light for many grappling with addiction. His early competitive spirit, influenced by family ties, set the stage for a life filled with both triumphs and tribulations, including an identity crisis, a battle with addiction, and a profound journey towards self-acceptance.
Dan Meyer opens up about the personal challenges he faced, drawing us into his world where validation and connection clashed with his struggle for self-love. Navigating the trials of ADHD and academic pressures, Dan's story is a powerful illustration of how one can turn adaptive survival strategies into stepping stones for growth. His candid discussion about the pitfalls of needing constant affirmation and the pattern of 'rescuing' others provides a stark glimpse into the complexities of human relationships and the transformative power of confronting deep-seated issues.
Our conversation culminates in a reflection on rebirth and the courage it takes to forge a new identity. Dan's transition from an athletic director to a role that champions humility and service is a poignant reminder of life's second acts. He shares the wisdom gained from pivotal moments that reshaped his life, offering encouragement and salient advice for anyone facing career shifts or identity redefinition. This episode is a compelling narrative of change, resilience, and the discovery of joy in the unexpected chapters of life.
Well, hey, everyone. Welcome to the Valiant Living podcast, where we educate, encourage and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom. I'm your host, drew Powell, and I'm a grateful alumni of the Valiant Living program. Valiant Living offers hope and transformational change to men and their families struggling with addiction and mental health challenges. So on this podcast you'll hear from the Valiant team, as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at 720-756-7941. Or you can email admissions at valiantlivingcom. We'd love to have a conversation with you, but for now let's dive into today's episode. So it's finally happening after my. How many times did I cancel on you? Just a couple Thanks for being on the podcast.
Speaker 1:We've got Dan Meyer affectionately known as Coach or Uncle Dan to my kids. So thanks for jumping on man.
Speaker 1:Hey, great to be here my pleasure I wanted to have you on for well, several different reasons. You're one of our, uh, great therapists here at valiant, but also have you came through this program, yeah, so you've got a amazing story. So this is like a combo valiant victory, but also get to hear from one of our, our staff members. So, um, yeah, let's dive in. Man, take us back kind of where'd you grow up? What was childhood like for for little coach uncle?
Speaker 2:dan um grew up in northwest ohio, um, out in, you know, out in farm country. Uh, in fact grew up basically on a farm. Yeah, my grandfather lived grandparents lived a quarter mile down the road and so I was at the farm all the time. You know, my grandfather would stop and I'd hit him in the butt because I was following behind him so closely. Yeah, cause, you know, both my parents were working. Dad was a teacher and coach, so I got it honestly. He was a teacher and coach, so I got it honestly. He was a football coach and a track coach and then did some wrestling coaching as well. You know, mom was a nurse at a family practice, so she was really busy with that. Yeah, so I spent a lot of time on the farm, spent a lot of time, you know, doing little dan things, you know um, I can just imagine you as a little kid just getting into stuff oh yeah, it was, it was yeah you had to be a pistol, gosh, yeah any siblings you have.
Speaker 2:I have one brother, um, he's nine years older than I am, so there's a big age gap. Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so there was that big age gap. So you know, my brother Dave's 18 and I'm nine, you know. So I'm this pesky little, you know little pesky little aunt that is getting in his way. You know, he would always come home. He was a really good wrestler and and, uh, he would come home from wrestling practice.
Speaker 1:Hey, dan, I learned a new move today at practice probably toughened you up oh, man being on the farm plus an older brother.
Speaker 2:He's a wrestler oh god, I, yeah, my. There's no doubt where I get my competitiveness from, because, yeah it, it, uh, it runs deep. You know, man, he would just beat the tar out of me and I'd go running away crying and then there'd be something in me that would be like, you know, I mean he's, he was 175, 10, 175, 175 pounds.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm this little nine-year-old string bean, right you know, and I would like think I would became the hulk or something and you know I'd go, I'd come running in from the other room just screaming you know I'm still still crying, arms flailing, probably and and trying to tackle him and he just would just, he would just laugh, really he would just laugh and it would just make you more, even more. So you know, oh gosh, it was, I love that, yeah, oh man. So so, yeah, my, my competitiveness was was was tied into that. Uh, quite regular, or quite, uh, yeah, without, without a doubt, that's where my competitiveness comes from was, was.
Speaker 1:So I didn't realize you had a dad who was a coach, grandpa's a farmer. It sounds like you're close with Grandpa, just out on the farm all day with him Older brother.
Speaker 2:Now it's starting to make sense here, dan, and my brother was a teacher and coach, so you came by it honestly, yeah, yeah, I've got aunts and uncles that were teachers and my Uncle Jim was a teacher and then he became a guidance counselor and that's why I actually got my master's in counseling was because of Uncle Jim. Really, I didn't know what I wanted to get my master's in. I knew I didn't want to be an administrator. I knew I didn't want to be in the classroom my whole life and so I got my. He inspired you my whole life and so I got my. He inspired you to do that. Yeah, I got my master's in counseling and that's actually how it has been. So it's an easy transition into this world because, yeah, so I had my master's for like 12 years before I started working here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy to look back to see how some of those things in life, even before you knew where the road was going to take you and the.
Speaker 2:And the funny thing is I still remember sitting in my master's classes, um, because there were. There were like two classes different between um, between the, the school tract and the mental health tract. Okay, and number of number of people were like well, I'm going to do both, I'm going to take both, and I was like there is no way in the world I'm ever going to work in the mental health tract, I'm not taking those two classes.
Speaker 1:Be careful what you say you're never going to do, right, yeah, exactly exactly I do.
Speaker 2:I still remember sitting there thinking I'm never going to do that. So what? I still remember sitting there thinking, eh, I'm never going to do that. So eh, what's the point? That's hilarious, so yeah. So I never took those two classes. However, those two classes, I guess, weren't needed for me to get my LAC and my LPC and all that. That's awesome, yeah.
Speaker 1:Talk me through like how was high school? Was sports a big part of your?
Speaker 2:world.
Speaker 1:I mean so if you're just listening and not watching like you're a big guy, athletic guy, right. Did that kind of come into play at all in high school? Did you start growing and then become an athlete?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so high school played football, basketball and ran track. I was a quarterback in football and so junior high, start of eighth or end of eighth grade, I was 5'9". August of my ninth grade year, I was 6'1" Wow.
Speaker 1:Coaches were happy to see you walk back in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I had a little bit of a growth spurt. So I was playing guard in junior high and then played center and post in high school, um, and and that really helped, you know, down the road here, um, but played football, basketball and ran track, ran track for my dad, um, which was amazing, um, so, but it was, it was. It was really tough. Um, my friend group. They liked to party and sports were too important to me. I wasn't going to party and so I was very alienated, really Very isolated. I would ask them hey, what's going on tonight? We're just going home, we're just going home, we're just going home, and I'd find out later that they were over at all these people's houses drinking and partying, which.
Speaker 1:They eventually just stopped inviting you because they knew you weren't going to engage in that.
Speaker 2:That and they were afraid because I was so ADHD that I would blab it to my dad or know is a teacher and coach in the system and so, yeah, so there was a lot of tough nights, you know, and I think that really played into my addiction later on, my addiction behavior later on, because, you know, because of how I was treated as a kid, I would push, I'd get close with some guys and then I would push them away. Guy friends, I would get close to them and then I'd push them away, because in my mind it was just a matter of time before they pushed me away. But, yeah, sports were very important that if it, if it wouldn't, wouldn't have been for sports, I don't know you know it would have been a very, very difficult high school time because um very isolated.
Speaker 2:in that regard, um, what were the college years, like for you. College. First two college years were were were really, really tough. Um went to Goshen College in Goshen, indiana, played basketball and ran track there. There was a lot of pressure coming in. Everybody knew who I was because I guess the word had gotten around that this all-state basketball player is coming in to play for us. Like I said, I was playing post in high school. You know, yeah, I'd played garden in junior high so I had good handles and could shoot the ball.
Speaker 1:But making that change from a world man, different world.
Speaker 2:You're right, yeah, and so, um, yeah, I didn't play very much. My year Got hurt at the end of my freshman year Broke my elbow. But breaking my elbow was probably the best thing that could have happened to me because it made me change my shot and really fine-tune my shot Really. But actually, you know, in my sophomore year played a lot more, but the hard part was, other than the guys on the team, I was once again very isolated, very alienated. It was a Mennonite church. I was not Mennonite, it was a very cliquish college and I didn't fit the clique. So it was very, very isolating.
Speaker 2:In fact, at the end of my sophomore year I still remember this very plainly was sitting in my car, I had just received, had just gotten my first car and was sitting there and I was ready to commit suicide. I was going to go out that night and get in a car accident and not have my seatbelt on, and had it all planned out. I was ready to do it and honestly, the only thing I can say is, by the grace of God, I turned off the engine and got out of the car and went back into my room. Man, got out of the car and went, went, went back into my room, um, man, and and because I was so down, so lonely, so isolated, Um, what had to feel weird?
Speaker 1:to even unless you talk like you know a lot of a lot of people who excel in sports that they have the opposite. So, like it's like hey, if you're the quarterback or you're a great basketball player or whatever, you're the popular kid and you're whatever it probably had it had to feel really weird. Like, hey, I'm excelling in this one area, but for some reason, like like if it were me and again, correct me, if you feel it I would be feeling well, what's wrong with what's going on with me? Like what's wrong with me that I can't Totally and that's 100% right, 100% how I felt.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Very much that you know. I see all these other people connecting and having friends and being asked to go do things, and then there's me.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:What's wrong with me, right, and for whatever reason. Well, kind of like I said before, the idea of being able to connect with other men friendship-wise was really tough for me, and so most of my friends were girls and women, because I didn't feel as pushed away by them, and so that then led me down a bad track as well. Later on, that then led me down a bad track as well. Later on, sure, and so, yeah, so my formative years were pretty lonely, yeah, pretty lonely.
Speaker 2:In fact, my parents still talk about this one from high school. I had told them that I was going over a certain you know, going over to the guy's house, that I was going over to the guy's house and they were hanging out with some of the former football coaches when my dad was coaching. They weren't coaching anymore when I was playing, but I said I was going over to their house and I just drove around the town and my parents saw me and said, well, why weren't you there? Well, they weren't there. Wow, you know, they had told me they were going to be a certain place and they weren't there.
Speaker 1:Instead of going home, you just kind of drove around, Just drove around just so I wasn't home, wow. Yeah. That's incredibly lonely man yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:When did you when it comes to coaching and teaching and all that kind of stuff, because I really want to get I don't want to jump the gun, but I want to get into some identity stuff with you because that's a big part of what the work you're doing here with a lot of the guys that are coming here, but that's a big part of, I think, your story and being able hey, here's who am I at the end of the day.
Speaker 1:But you know you go from being a great athlete then you know and I don't want to tell your story for you but very successful in your career, in your field, administration, coaching. You know all that kind of stuff. How did you kind of, how did you get into that? Did you know that was where you wanted to go with your life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I knew I wanted to be a teacher, basically from when I was fourth grade on.
Speaker 1:Okay, um, family was doing it. Yeah, I mean, it was the yeah, it was the family gig.
Speaker 2:It was a family business. You know, um, you know I grew up with teachers. I mean my, my, all my parents' friends were teachers. You know the people I hung out with, um, you know all of their kids. We were teachers' kids. We would hang out at the school and all my friends would. My friends. I always kind of put quotation marks on that, but they would call and say, hey, can we get into the gym? And so I was the entry to the gym. I mean I played more basketball in our gym than yeah.
Speaker 2:So I knew early on I wanted to be a teacher and coach. So I went to. After I left Goshen, I went to Ohio University and was going to actually walk on at Athens and had it all set up ready to go. And then, for some reason, I went to Athens High School, to their open gym one night to talk to the, to the basketball coach, and uh, he said, hey, I need a JV boys basketball coach. I was like, well, I'm going to walk on at the. And I was like, do I really want to? And I said this is, this is probably even a better idea for my. So my last three years yes, I was on the five-year plan. I liked my senior year so much I decided to repeat it. But yeah, so I coached there for three years. I coached basketball and track for three years. So you made the choice.
Speaker 1:So you were a student. Still, yeah, I was a student. Instead of going the athlete route halfway through, you started coaching Yep, yep, which, in hindsight, is pretty great. I don't know if it's pretty great awareness to where your life was going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Don't you think I mean that's a great decision based on where you're on your life track. Yeah, and I also thought it would be a great decision for, hey, I've been coaching for this school system for three years.
Speaker 1:Paved the way for what's your next?
Speaker 2:Yeah, paved the way for potentially getting a job there. It didn't work out that way, and that's okay too, but you're coming out of college with great coaching experience yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm coming out with three years of high school coaching experience. And then, you know, went to, went back, actually back to Goshen area. I was I was dating a girl or a woman at that time that that her parents lived in Goshen. I always loved the area, hated the school, love the area, love the schools, so went back up there there substitute, taught for a year, worked at, actually actually coached at goshen college coach track for a year and and then got a full-time job as a teacher at concord, fourth grade teacher in concord. So, yeah, so it kind of was. I look back at that and think, yes, it would have been great to play for a couple more years, especially because they did make the NCAA tournament one of those years. It would have been great to do that. However, it was a great kickoff to my career. I didn't spend the time at the, you know, at the junior high and elementary level coaching.
Speaker 2:You know, I jumped right into high school coaching you know I was freshmen and JV boys coach, you know, teaching fourth grade and and yeah, things were going at a very big basketball school.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, that area up there is basketballs. I mean well, football too, I guess. But basketball is kind of basketball is the King in Indiana.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, um, yeah, so taught for, yeah, for uh was fourth grade, sixth grade and then a fifth and sixth grade alternative classroom for uh 24 years. And then uh had also, after I stopped coaching, um went through, went when I went through the uh, my divorce, um, they had me step away from coaching for that year. Um, then I got it, got out of coaching totally and so really went through a very big identity crisis, huge identity crisis. I didn't know who I was. I wasn't coaching anymore, I was still teaching, but I enjoyed the teaching, but I loved the coaching, I loved the connection with the kids. So I had been an athlete and in athletics forever. And here I am now, yeah, rudderless, basically in in my mind, um, and so it was, yeah, it was very much of an identity crisis, um, and and uh, I was, I was, you know, mentally pretty pretty bad, sure, sure.
Speaker 1:Pretty low. Talk us through when. When did addiction first kind of show up in your story?
Speaker 2:um, you've done a lot of work, so now it's easy to look in hindsight, but you know, yeah, um, it actually probably started um back and even in high school, um how the guys had had treated me. Um, that was probably the start then, because I would, I would be friends with these, with the, with so many women so many girls.
Speaker 2:At that time Um and um never had any real male connection Um and that kind of. That kind of any real male connection Um and that kind of that kind of that same story kind of continues and on, and on, and on Um and then cause.
Speaker 1:That was the place where you would get affirmed. I mean, that was a place where you were gotten your value and attention affirmation, all those things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, yeah, I had. I felt like I had zero to little, to little, to no connection with the guys. But the girls that were there, yeah, there's even a picture in my senior yearbook I'm laying on the ground in my football jersey and there's probably 10 or 12 girls around. I think there may be one other football player in it, but it's, you know, you can't even really see him, right? Um, yeah, so that's where I got my affirmations that those were my friends and so that kind of of continued and and that kind of can, that kind of that process kind of continued.
Speaker 2:And then going into elementary education, you know, um, I wasn't a great student. You know, I was suffering from, from adhd, big time. I didn't read a book in college. Didn't read a book, couldn't, you know? I would read the first, first paragraph and have no clue what I read at the top of the page, no clue.
Speaker 2:And so I had to create some, some adaptations to be successful. You know, um, hey, let's have study group. You know, I'll take this, I'll take this part of the book, you know. And and in elementary education there was it was 90, 97%, you know, female, you know. And so, once again, you know, I was the it was 97% female Right and so, once again, I was kind of that class clown everybody loved because it was fun to be around, I was personable and all of those things, but dumb as a box of rocks and so, yeah, college was really difficult. It was a box of rocks, you know, and so, yeah, college was really difficult, but I had to figure out a way to be successful. But once again, you know, played that card of being the charmer, being the, you know, the good guy, the, you know those kind of things. That rescuer, that rescuer mode for me comes up way too frequently in my life.
Speaker 1:Well, it's just your survival skill, right?
Speaker 2:I mean, it's how you know how to survive with that, I resonate with that very deeply.
Speaker 1:What was the moment for you where it kind of came to a point of like, hey, I got to get some help here.
Speaker 2:So I had been very unfaithful to my wife. I had been very unfaithful to several other women that I had dated between my wife and getting help, Always needing that constant validation, that new validation. And so I was dating a woman and she had found out that I had been cheating on her and so I started going to counseling and did some really good stuff there, but it never dealt with sex addiction.
Speaker 2:It never dealt with intimacy. It dealt with all the other stuff really the mental health stuff, the trauma, some of those things, but it never dealt with the intimacy pieces and so kind of white-knuckled I guess, became kind of a workaholic During this time. I was also so I was teaching, I was officiating basketball, and then I was also an assistant athletic director at the high school and so I was working. You know, I'd be working five, six days a week at events, but basically there was a part of me that was like this is just so. I don't reach out and talk to reach out to other women, keep yourself occupied, keep myself occupied.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so did that for a number of years.
Speaker 2:Then got a job at Benton Central, down in my wife's Lafayette, as the, as the full-time athletic director, and went through the first year you know no issues and then, about halfway through, started texting a teacher that was married Cause, like I said, one of my things was was rescuing and a lot of the, a lot of the women, uh, that I had cheated on with, with um during other other situations, um, there were rescues, you know, there were people that were in marriages that were bad, you know, and so Dan swoops in to to be the knight in shining armor, the hero of that story, the hero of that story, yeah.
Speaker 2:But then there was also the piece of okay, yeah, they're married, so they aren't leaving their husbands. One side of it, I was looking at how, you know, wonderful they were and we were the life we were going to create together, and da, da, da, da, da da da when he, when she left her husband, and and then there was the other piece. There was the love avoidant piece, knowing full well she wasn't leaving her husband, right? So was there a part of you that that felt safer?
Speaker 2:that way like yeah oh yeah, because I didn't have to feel that commitment. Yeah, you know I didn't have to feel that commitment. Yeah, you know I didn't have to feel that commitment to them or to any situation, because, being the love avoidant piece, I don't have to be committed. They're going to stay with their husbands, I'm going to, you know, they're going to get rid of me, you know. So it was Right. It was, yeah, it was safe, right, but knowing full well, you know. You know, when I was still dating certain women, you know, here I am being the rescuer of this, you know, and it still probably, I would imagine like there's a undertones, too, of of loneliness.
Speaker 1:still, though, like that intimacy disorder of you know whether it was the guys in high school or it's kid all the way through, and now you're in these relationships where you know, but there there's, you're still not fully known. It's still like there's a still an element of loneliness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's, there's. They don't really know me and it's.
Speaker 2:And it goes back to the Patrick Carnes belief of if you really know me, you wouldn't love me, right. And so I was putting on this, this knight in shining armor front, when inside I truly hated who I was, I truly hated myself. I, I mean, I remember walking, I would walk into the, into the bathroom and turn on the shower. Not turn on the light, turn on the shower, get in the shower. You know not turn on the shower, not turn on the light, turn on the shower, get in the shower. You know. Not turn on the fan, nothing.
Speaker 2:So that I didn't have to see myself in the mirror because I didn't want to see who was looking back at me. I hated myself that much, wow, you know, I wouldn't turn on the light until the mirror was basically fogged over. Yeah, because I didn't want to see that person. Cause I hated that person so much, you know, for, for all the hurt that he's caused, you know, knowing what he's done to his, his sons, uh, knowing what he's done to other people, the wake, you know, the, the damage in the wake that he, you know, the wake behind me, was just destruction, right. And so I truly hated who was looking back at me.
Speaker 1:It's so sad and it's so much of the work that you're doing now here at Valiant is helping guys we talk about. This comes up a lot with self-compassion and self-love again, because they're feeling a lot of the same things you felt and not having the knowledge yet of like what you're saying earlier well, like, well, this is all I knew, this was how I knew how to survive, yes, and not yet having the grace for ourselves to be able to say well, of course, that's how you're going to act, giving the circumstances, giving you know it's like, and that's that's a big part of the early work. But I know a lot of people listen to this or hopefully, even if it's a spouse listen to this, understands that there's so much shame that comes along with this, really the pain that a person's carrying in their addiction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it was. Yeah, the pain was and that was part of the addiction cycle is I would have that pain and I would have to substance people will use their drugs and alcohol to numb that pain. Well, in my addiction I numbed that pain by going to another woman, by getting validation from another woman. In my story I say it a lot that it wasn't about the sex, that was like to me, that was the cherry on top. You know, it was about the validation, the just getting and feeling good about who I was for that moment.
Speaker 1:Well, and you could perform for that person long enough for them to affirm really a person that you probably that didn't exist, Didn't exist right and I really relate to that in my story as well. So, yeah, I can. That's why I'm saying that, because it's all a facade. Yes, but you get that temporary hit. It's like Jill. Like jill told me like hey, drew, you tend to smoke people. Like people are the what you use, who you use so as your drug of choice to make yourself feel better that you don't know how to connect.
Speaker 2:That's exactly how it was, that's exactly how it was and yeah, that, that, yeah. So my substance of choice was my brain and other people, and that's why I said I have this wake of destruction behind me. That is still hard to deal with at times, sure, but somewhere throughout this whole process I've actually I don't mind the guy looking back at me in the mirror anymore, you know I kind of like that guy, um, you know he, he's, he's okay, he's okay now.
Speaker 1:Um. That's a big deal for you to say that. I can see the emotion in your eyes, even when you say it now. That's a big deal for you to say that it is, it is Um, it's hard to say.
Speaker 2:Still, you know yeah, because for so long you know my addiction, my addiction, you know and this is this is weird to say but my addiction saved my life.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Because if it wouldn't have been for my addiction, there's no doubt in my mind I would have. I would have committed suicide at some point in time because I would not have been able to it was the thing that kept you alive. It kept me alive Until you could get help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So you know, as I said, I was texting this woman who was married. The administration, the other administrators found out and I was placed on leave and resigned from that job because my philosophy, or my thought, was I've been doing the same thing time and time again and expecting the different results. Yeah, guess what Insanity right Insanity.
Speaker 2:Yep, and you know, part of addiction is insanity, you know. And so I had to do something different. And so I had to suck it up and and called my parents, told me about what was going, told them about what was going on. Uh, that couldn't have been a fun phone call. No, that was not a fun phone call. I avoided that one like the plague. Yeah, um, and finally sucked it up and made that phone call, and then we started one of the one of the women I was dating, um, um, you know. Uh, she had done some research, um, while we were dating, of places, um and uh. So I called her. Now, also not a phone call, because it was one of those I told you. So, yeah, um. She did not do that though, um, which was I was thankful for, um, which was I was thankful for. But you know, in that phone call, she gave me the places she had researched and one of them was Gentle Path, and so immediately called them.
Speaker 2:And so the Monday, november 29th 2021, flew out to Arizona, and it's so ironic, you know, when I look back at that journey, I said, okay, I'll jump on the plane, spend my 45 days at Gentle Path and then I'll come back to Indiana, I'll get a temporary job and then I'll get back into the schools somewhere. Well, I spent my 45 days at Gentle Path Remarkable and they had recommended I go to Valiant and drug my feet on that one a little bit, you know, made some phone calls here and talked to a couple people here and really connected with them, but, yeah, just still dragging my feet and finally pulled the trigger. So flew home for a couple days, flew back out here January 15, 2022. And, uh, um got here, deneen picked me up from the airport and took me to dinner and we spent like three hours together that first night.
Speaker 2:Um, it's like he and I were fast friends from old life. Um, you know, and and have been close ever since. And so I got on that flight also thinking, okay, I'll spend my 90 days in Denver, I'll enjoy my time there, and then I'll fly back to Indiana early May. That'll be perfect. I'll find a job in the schools and resume my career. Life goes on.
Speaker 2:Life goes on Well, as I was out here, deneen took me to breakfast one time and said you're going to work for me after you're done with your time.
Speaker 1:Really, I didn't know that he called it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I hadn't even left PHP yet.
Speaker 1:I was still in my first 30 days.
Speaker 2:I hadn't even left PHP yet and he says, yeah, he goes, we're going to use your coaching background and you're going to kind of be the, become the, the, the guy's coach. You know, um, and so that was kind of the plan and um, that plan kind of changed but that's okay. And uh, um, and so I became I, I left programming in um in May, um in May, and then came back as the house manager at Piney Creek and you know, that's how, that's how you and I got to be so tight too was was was living together there, and well, and I will.
Speaker 1:It's. It's really interesting and emotional for me to hear your story about your history of not being able to like connect with other guys, and the reason why I say that is because you were the first person that I connected with on a deeper level because of your story, right? So cause I cause when I came in really wrestle with intimacy disorder stuff, and at the time the guys in the program had a lot of um, there's a lot of substance abuse, which, the more of the work, I did realize that we're a lot more in common yeah, you know, it's all intimacy disorder at the end of the day right and so but at but our stories?
Speaker 1:I didn't relate to the the stories as much and I remember specifically the moment we met in the office there at Foxfield. You open up and like I was immediately like this guy where there was a connection immediately. And you know you're like a brother. I've told you.
Speaker 2:You're a brother to me, man.
Speaker 1:You're my brother too. It's lifer, the fact that I just have so much gratitude, dan, for like what you've walked through in your life to get to this point that you could then show up for me in that moment when I ever, when I was losing everything, yeah, and now for my kids to call you uncle dan, like I would not have ever thought this guy has had had issues connecting with like. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, and that is just a testament to your, your courage and the work that you put in so that you could show up for guys like me and there's more, you know, there's more than just me who feel that same way about you.
Speaker 2:Right, it's like there's there's two others I gave them the 50 bucks before they left you know.
Speaker 1:But thank you, man, thank you for thank you for the work, the courage of making those phone calls, for getting the help to doing. You know all that you've been through so that at this point you know now in your story you went from housing and you're a therapist now. You've had several different roles here and served with the alumni and just kind of wherever you're needed, you were just willing to jump in with the detox for a while. I mean, just like you, just like hey, wherever I can serve and help. And there's a lot of humility in that, which probably wasn't your mo before, right like that's probably I want my.
Speaker 2:My mo before was was yes, I wanted to help, um, you know, I was obviously team player in everything I did, but there was always um kind of I don't want to say ulterior motives, but it was. I wanted the, I wanted the, the gratification that came with that. Yeah, I wanted the theats on the back, I wanted the attaboys, totally, you know. And now it's hey, you know, see a need, fill the need.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and that's kind of what I did. I had a little hiccup there for a little bit. You know, I was a little down and Deneen and I had a little heart-to-heart.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it got me back on track. And you know, it was some of that old habits coming back a little bit. The old narrative showing yeah, that woe is me, and you know, and so that's really. You know. That was a great moment, though, and, as I said, I think it actually made Deneen and I closer Totally.
Speaker 1:By the way, he's masterful in those moments, his honesty and his we've had one or two of those too, and it's rebuilt trust for me when it comes to leaders that you can be honest with and bare your soul with and they meet you in that place. There's a lot of like that. Just a lot of times that doesn't happen, you know, and so I I love that he's safe enough that you can go and just be like, hey, I'm feeling this kind of way and yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:I tell them all the time I said I you know, not only are you my boss, but you know I look at you as a friend and a brother you know, and and how often can you have that?
Speaker 1:with an employer.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's pretty special yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's spend our last few minutes because I want, I want you to speak specifically to, so you go from. You know, athletic director, coach, this is your, not just your identity, but your family's identity. This is what you do, right. And here you are now in this second act, third act, whatever, of your life.
Speaker 1:However you want to say it, you know where it's like now you're doing the thing you said you'd never do. Yeah, new career, new purpose, new passion, all that kind of stuff maybe not new, I mean you're still. You're still coach right, you're still teaching like right.
Speaker 1:You're still a teacher and I love that. I think that's why a lot of guys connect with you is because you have a lot of empathy, but you also especially for someone like me who grew up playing sports. I really respond to a coach like someone who's saying hey, man, you've got this.
Speaker 2:You can do this, and here's how. Let me show you like it.
Speaker 1:You know it's, it's. I want to say that it's not that you're not connected to your emotions, but I think for a lot of our guys we need both. We need the, the empathy and emotion, but we also need another brother, another man to say hey, you've got this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, here's the x's and the o's, let's run, you know yeah, and that's, that's your sweet spot right.
Speaker 1:Great at that yeah, but for a lot of guys that come into this program and I'm one of them where, before we came into treatment rehab, we were doing one thing that was our whole identity.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And, for whatever reason, we emerge and we need to do something else whether that's no longer an option to us, or it's not healthy for us, whatever it is, or we just found too much of our identity in it and so now we have to like reset and almost re-emerge as this different kind of person. Right, this could be a whole series of podcasts. So I realize this is an unfair thing to like to, to dive into and try to summarize, but for the guys listening, or even the spouses listening that are in that place I mean I'm talking to guys in program right now who are really trying to decide, like, do I go back to my old career?
Speaker 2:but it's all I've ever known Right?
Speaker 1:What advice, encouragement would you give? How did you navigate just identity of reemerging as this new person?
Speaker 2:Well, it was, it was it. I. I give a lot of credit to Valiant and to Deneen. You know, deneen and I would talk a lot about that. And then what really hit me over the head was when I went from PHP to IOP. I was falling into that old pattern of well, I'll just go substitute teach, I'll substitute teach because that's what I know. And so I'd contacted a few people and I was like yeah we'd love to have, you know, get all the.
Speaker 2:And then I just hated the idea. It just didn't sit right. It didn't sit right, it didn't sit right. And so I was like I can't go back to schools I can't go back to. Just because this is what I know doesn't mean that this is what's best. That's great. And so I had to yeah, I had to kind of reinvent myself.
Speaker 2:I was working at Home Depot for you know four or five months and loved it and just was able to reconnect with enjoying work again. And then Deneen came to me and said hey, you know, let's get you into the case management, let's get you into housing, let's get you, you know, let's get you rolling. And it just felt right. It just felt you know. So I had to really surrender my past and listen to my higher power hitting me upside the head with a baseball bat, basically saying you know, no, this is a bad, bad idea for you to go back to education, right, it's a bad idea for you to go back to education, right, it's a bad idea, don't do it. And so I think, just listening and talking and living in consultation, I had several conversations with guys, like with Mikey and Randy and Shea Shay, you know those guys about. Hey, this is I'm not. I'm not feeling the education thing, what. What do I do?
Speaker 1:And um Living in consultation is huge. Oh, it is having people around you that you can really listen to and process things with. Yeah, One of my major takeaways from being here has been that which is like there's very few decisions I'm I make on any medium to large scale, that I don't have a team of people that are helping me make that decision. Oh, exactly that. That are not just yes, men, they're like yes, yes yeah, you're full of crap exactly.
Speaker 2:You know you, yeah, right, um, you do this, you're gonna blow stuff up, right, you know um, you so yeah, so it was. I had to take that step away for a while and realize, you know, kind of having that intermediary job of of, of Home Depot. I knew I wasn't going to work for Home Depot for the rest of my life, but I did know, you know, that education wasn't where I wanted to be anymore, and so, you know, so I I kind of listened to my higher power. You know I had to surrender. I had to surrender my own um beliefs and my own thoughts well, I thought, oh yeah, like that for me was the ego.
Speaker 1:Like I liked being known as this type of person or whatever. You know, I liked being Like, I liked being known as this type of person, or whatever.
Speaker 2:I liked being known as coach. I liked being known as even a teacher. I liked being known as the athletic director. I liked being known as you know. Yeah, I liked that Fill in the blank Attorney doctor, dentist, whatever, yes, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:However, why was I doing it? Yeah, and was it good for me? Schools had become very unhealthy for me, not just with the connection, but just school in general. I was getting very disenfranchised or just couldn't connect with what was happening in the schools anymore. It was getting so political and teaching to the test and all that. It wasn't about the kids anymore and that was part of the reason why I wanted to get into athletic director. But still there was just always that. But still there was just always that you know. But you know, my girlfriend and I were driving on Sunday back from I forget where we'd gone, but I was talking about my passion for working with the guys here at Valiant and she was saying how she has seen the growth in me also. And when I was talking about it I was getting goosebumps on my legs and I was like you can't fake this Right. You know this body reaction, this visceral reaction right here.
Speaker 1:Can't produce it, I can't fake this. I can't fake this. Yeah, I can't fake this and she goes. Oh, I know she goes, I see it in you, but isn't it interesting in like that soul level contentment and peace, when someone that knows you best actually affirms you yeah, but now it's the real you yeah and not like for like for me, if my wife or someone says something like that to me now, but it's not the the old like projection of what I wanted to get affirmed but wasn't the real me right man, there's no better no feeling in the world.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's, that's why you get goosebumps. You're like, wow, yeah, I'm doing the thing I was put on the planet to do. You know, yeah, not, for you know, part of us still.
Speaker 2:There's always the ego and all of the stuff but right, yeah, that I mean that's, that's special man but, but it's and it's and it's like and it's also you know, I look at how my life is. Is has been transformed by, by gentle path and by valiant and and by my own personal therapist and and all the therapists that I've had in in in this journey. I'm in the healthiest relationship I've ever been in with caitlin, ever been in oh, she gets most of the credit on that.
Speaker 1:Well, 97 of the credit.
Speaker 2:yes, yeah, she's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I've outkicked my coverage on that one For sure. You know she is a wonderful person and it's the healthiest relationship I've ever been in. I'm in the healthiest male relationships I've ever been in. You know, with you and Mikey and Jay and I mean I've got real friends that I know that if I called them at two o'clock in the morning they're answering the phone and they're calling. You know they're. They're there for me, they're there for me and I never, I've never had that in my life, never, never. And you know getting emotional about that too, you know. And and being able to connect with your family, you know, having them call me uncle Dan, oh's a big deal man?
Speaker 1:Oh my God.
Speaker 2:When Emery did the podcast, there must have been something in the air when I was reading it because all of a sudden, my eyes started watering.
Speaker 1:Who's peeling onions in here?
Speaker 2:Yeah, who's peeling onions? Bad thing is, I was driving in my truck when I was listening to it.
Speaker 2:But you know, hearing, hearing the connections that, the authentic connections that I've been able to make in in in my life since, since you know this, this next chapter in my life, since I've turned the page on that old chapter and created this new chapter, this is a pretty dang good chapter. I like this, this chapter. You know, um, and I finally liked the main character in this chapter, um, because that was, yeah, that was one of the biggest things. The biggest hurdles, you know, was, was, was the main character was despised by the main character, you know, um, and so that was that was. You know it's the hard, that was a hard way to live and uh, um, I just am so thankful, you know um, for everybody. That's in my life now. You know, um, it's, it's the, it's the most authentic I've ever been in my life. That's the most honest I've ever been in my life. Um, my life perfect, no, but it's as close as it's ever been. You know and you know, am I a finished product?
Speaker 1:Not even close, not even close you know I've got a lot of Just based on the football teams you root for a weekend.
Speaker 2:Well, you know it's well, it's not Florida. I know that.
Speaker 1:There it is so Well, man you've. I just have so much gladness and so much gratitude that has come up in this conversation Just because you know, just being able to hear again all that you've journeyed through and then watching you now being able to help so many other guys and families. And it does go deeper than just the guy Cause it. It, you know it trickles down to our families and our spouses and everything else. And yeah, just so, just so grateful. This conversation has been so helpful man.
Speaker 2:Thank you for sharing your heart and for the work you do here. Thank you for sharing your heart and for the work you do here. Thank you for having me. It's you know I love you, brother and uh, you know, um, it's, it's, it's, it's been a great journey and, uh, I will continue down this journey because it's just getting started, man Just getting started, it's a marathon, not a sprint. Love it. So, yeah, thanks, dan. Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 1:Well, we appreciate you listening to this episode of the Valiant Living Podcast and our hope is that it helped you feel educated, encouraged and even empowered on your journey towards peace and freedom. If we can serve you or your loved one in any way, we'd love to have a conversation with you. You can call 720-756-7941 or email admissions at valiantlivingcom. At Valiant Living, we treat the whole person so you not only survive, but you thrive in the life you deserve. And finally, if this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean a lot to us if you'd subscribe and even share it with your friends and family. You can also follow along with us on Instagram and Facebook by simply searching Valiant Living. Thanks again for listening and supporting the Valiant Living podcast. We'll see you next week.
