Embarking on the road to recovery is a tale of strength and vulnerability, marred by moments of humor and harrowing struggle. It's a narrative I know all too well, inviting you to walk alongside my guest and me, fellow Valiant Living program alumni, as we recount our personal odysseys from the grip of addiction to the embrace of sobriety. We kick things off with a light-hearted memory of a recovery walk that went awry with hot dogs, but quickly delve into the sober realities of our pasts. Our stories are a candid testament to the resilience required to overcome a life shaded by substance abuse.
Tune in for an intimate exploration of the forces that can steer a life towards addiction. My guest shares the complex interplay of a strict religious upbringing and early experiments with intoxication, charting his course from a childhood sip of beer to a descent into the shadows of methamphetamine abuse. He opens up about the personal struggles that fueled his addiction, from battling demons of low self-esteem to the impact of economic hardship on parenting. It's a raw look at the intricate web of circumstances that can trap someone in the cycle of dependency, and the daunting but necessary journey towards redemption.
Our conversation takes a turn down the rocky road of recovery, where success is measured in daily battles won against the lure of relapse. We discuss the critical importance of support systems like Narcotics Anonymous and the personal resolve it takes to maintain sobriety amidst life's trials, including loss during the COVID-19 pandemic and the pain of family estrangement. Our episode offers an inspiring reminder of the transformative power of self-reflection and the courage it takes to seek help. This is our story, but it's also a beacon of hope for anyone who might see themselves in the chapters of our lives.
Embarking on the road to recovery is a tale of strength and vulnerability, marred by moments of humor and harrowing struggle. It's a narrative I know all too well, inviting you to walk alongside my guest and me, fellow Valiant Living program alumni, as we recount our personal odysseys from the grip of addiction to the embrace of sobriety. We kick things off with a light-hearted memory of a recovery walk that went awry with hot dogs, but quickly delve into the sober realities of our pasts. Our stories are a candid testament to the resilience required to overcome a life shaded by substance abuse.
Tune in for an intimate exploration of the forces that can steer a life towards addiction. My guest shares the complex interplay of a strict religious upbringing and early experiments with intoxication, charting his course from a childhood sip of beer to a descent into the shadows of methamphetamine abuse. He opens up about the personal struggles that fueled his addiction, from battling demons of low self-esteem to the impact of economic hardship on parenting. It's a raw look at the intricate web of circumstances that can trap someone in the cycle of dependency, and the daunting but necessary journey towards redemption.
Our conversation takes a turn down the rocky road of recovery, where success is measured in daily battles won against the lure of relapse. We discuss the critical importance of support systems like Narcotics Anonymous and the personal resolve it takes to maintain sobriety amidst life's trials, including loss during the COVID-19 pandemic and the pain of family estrangement. Our episode offers an inspiring reminder of the transformative power of self-reflection and the courage it takes to seek help. This is our story, but it's also a beacon of hope for anyone who might see themselves in the chapters of our lives.
Well, hey, everyone. Welcome to the Valiant Living podcast, where we educate, encourage and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom. I'm your host, drew Powell, and I'm a grateful alumni of the Valiant Living program. Valiant Living offers hope and transformational change to men and their families struggling with addiction and mental health challenges. So on this podcast you'll hear from the Valiant team, as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at 720-756-7941. Or you can email admissions at valiantlivingcom. We'd love to have a conversation with you, but for now let's dive into today's episode. Well, thanks for jumping on the podcast, man. Anytime, anytime, bro. We were just reminiscing the first time that you and I met and I had been in the program not that much longer than you. Honestly, do you remember how much longer? Like maybe a few weeks?
Speaker 2:uh, yeah, probably three to four weeks, I imagine um right, it wasn't that much longer uh, you were. You were fixing to. I don't think we were in the php house for a short amount of time before you moved out yeah yeah, I stayed in the house longer because I well, first of all, I loved living in there.
Speaker 1:I had the master, so I was like I wasn't in any hurry to leave, right, and I love meeting the guys and stuff. So I was in. Even when I was in IOP. I stayed in PHP longer. But, dude, I remember meeting you and I really mean this like it's a gift to be able to meet guys at the very beginning stages of their recovery, cause we were just kind of laughing at ourselves before we hit record about how messy it is those first few days and weeks. I don't know how much of that you remember or not, but it's wild, isn't it that's the bad part is my memory.
Speaker 2:You know, through all the drugs that I put into my body and stuff, I I've uh, and that's part of you know why, um, it's hard for me to let stuff go is because I have a vivid memory of pretty much everything from childhood, all the way, my drug use and everything well, I just remember we went to this outdoor event.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to remember what it was. Was it the, the parade?
Speaker 2:Okay, so yes, it was some kind of walk. It was the I and I I had still have my t-shirt. Uh, we went to a recovery walk and yeah, advocates for recovery is what it's called, and, um, and I walked downtown.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of my first memories of you was you always had a bigger than life personality. I mean super funny, outgoing, outspoken. You know we connected early on over shoes. Like you were like we're talking about these or whatever it was, but they were giving out free hot dogs, yeah, and I just remember, like this guy ate more hot dogs than I, like you just kept going back through the line and we're like we're looking at each other like how many hot dogs has jason had, and I don't remember. We're counting. I don't remember what the count was because I don't want to exaggerate, but it was high, high. Do you remember any of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember it was at least a good 20, 25 hot dogs. I'm sure I was just drained and I was just. I've actually food has been a comfort source for me before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2:There are people that struggle with that. Uh, luckily I'm getting my drug of choice, you know, methamphetamine. So, coming off of that, you just your body's completely robbed of all nutrients and you just sleep and eat, and uh, that's one thing. I, you know, I went up to Denver um just this last week. I'm going to try to make it an annual trip to see the guys there and I got to.
Speaker 2:Denver is a sanctuary city. There's a lot of homeless people and a lot of migrants and a lot of drug use and I was able to see some people that were in that stage where they were just eating what it's good to survive, to survive and you know. Things like that make you grateful that you're, you know you're not out there living. Yeah, yeah, that's right. They counted my uh calories. I was probably taking in somewhere in the neighborhood of 8 000 calories in a day.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was ridiculous well, we, we uh, affectionately refer to guys like you as a valiant victory, because here you are, almost two years later and you're showing up every day just living in recovery, and we'll get into some of this.
Speaker 1:Life's not perfect, I mean, you've got a lot of hard things going on in your life. We're not trying to paint the picture that living in sobriety, recovery, is just smooth sailing and in your life just everything works out perfectly, and so we'll get into some of that if you want. But, man, just right off the bat, want to say congratulations on this length of sobriety and you know, just knowing some of your story cause we sat in the rooms together I mean you've had just a lot in your past and your story and you know a lot of different things and, man, to see you walking in sobriety and recovery and your faith is strong and your physical. You said you're walking five to seven miles a day. I mean, bro, it's an inspiration to talk to you and remember being in that place together two years ago and just seeing a fellow brother, just you know, putting his recovery first and walking it out. So congratulations, man.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I was at a brave broken thought you know I, I was at the. I was at the point where I really didn't think I could ever, uh, beat methamphetamine. I thought, you know I was to the point where I didn't even really want to live anymore.
Speaker 2:I was tired of fighting it because I tried everything. You know that I mean because I tried everything. You know that I mean I have tried everything. And I think this last round, what you know, is a combination, not just one exact thing. I think it's a combination of things. That is I'm at today. I'm still not where I want to be by any means, but you know, it's a battle every day. Just because you get clean, as a man Throwing curve balls at you and you still have crappy days.
Speaker 1:But it's just the way you deal with them, that's right. Well, take us back, man. I would love to hear some of your story where you grew up and just kind of give us a little bit of your background.
Speaker 2:I grew up. I'm from Oklahoma. I've lived in Oklahoma all my life, except for a short time. I lived outside of Nebraska. Um grew up uh, the youngest. Three kids, uh, I was there. We're each about three to four years apart. So, um, my, my brother's the oldest, my sister's the middle, I'm the youngest.
Speaker 2:I grew up, uh, you know, a fairly happy kid. Um, you know, my parents got divorced when I was young. I was about three years old. I didn't understand what. From what I remember from my parents being together, it just wasn't what a typical marriage would think. Not that my father was abusive or anything like that. It's just that they just were arguing all the time, even after they split up. So that was really hard on me. But I found out soon after. My parents both got remarried soon after. So my step-parents both are very good people.
Speaker 2:No-transcript been a huge thing for me. Going to the lake, uh, it's been my best place, best uh place that I've had, the best time of my life. It's also been the worst place by the worst times in my life. Um, I'm a victim of sexual abuse. As a young kid, um really didn't even know what sex was. Uh, I just know that. Um, you know, it took me a little while to figure out. You know, I knew right away what happened to me wasn't normal. Um, but like I say, uh, it was. It was a neighbor guy that that abused me. Um, so it happened to be at the lake, the lake that I still go to. Um, you know, I still drive.
Speaker 2:So part of my recovery is is I I still drive by there. I I've learned about the power of forgiveness. I I'm 40 years old. This happened whenever I was, you know, like eight years old. So I've lived most of my life and, um, you know, a lot of anger, a lot of hate towards this person. You know, didn't didn't really know this person that good. It was kind of a just a thing. You know, that happened is what it is, but it made me to make some choices in life, to learn. To make some choices in life, to learn. You know that was the beginning of me. You know, locking up and not talking about my feelings. I've always been a person that didn't share my feelings with you know, and I don't have a huge circle of people, you know, just my family and friends. But that was the beginning of me learning how to bottle up emotions and not share emotions.
Speaker 1:Sure man, thank you for sharing that part of your story with us. I'm curious when was the age where you started using finding other ways to escape?
Speaker 2:Shortly after I started using tobacco. My father has always drank and used tobacco around us and he always thought it was funny. I remember my first time having a cigarette it was one of my grandmothers that my dad had given me and I was probably nine years old walking through a park of public people smoking a cigarette. My dad thought it was just a funny thing and I thought it was cool. You know, everybody thinks it's funny, or you know? I mean, I was in the area where we, we went to the store about candy cigarettes because or we, we chewed uh, we chewed raisins and acted like it was chewing tobacco and would spit you, you know.
Speaker 2:So it was a cool thing I grew up in the Campbell and Marlboro commercial days, you know so, yeah, using, you know, tobacco. But I really started, you know started using alcohol at a pretty young age. I was probably 10 to 11 years old. I grew up in a pretty religious family, of a pretty religious family. My mother and grandparents are Mennonite brethren, which you know. There's no alcohol in the household. You just try to live. You know, it's a very strict religion, so I wasn't exposed to stuff like that. I did have a friend still a very good friend today and he was Catholic. His parents partook in alcohol. They had alcohol at the house. Well, I figured that out, me and this kid, we were country boys that rode four-wheelers and did all sorts, swam in the river and just were kids. And that's whenever I started drinking.
Speaker 2:I remember I my first drink of alcohol. Uh, I don't remember the brand that it was, but it was a beer. I remember drinking a beer and thinking to myself, uh, gosh, this tastes horrible. How, why would anybody drink this? And then I remember, yeah, I just couldn't hardly stomach it. And then I believe we probably had. I want to. I mean, I didn't get, uh, really intoxicated but I got, I know, all of a sudden, my head got a little tingly and, uh, man, I just felt real good and I thought to myself man, I feel amazing, like why wouldn't you know? Why would anybody not want to do this? Like it's, it's all my, you know, I had no, I would. I could ride a foiler better, I could do stuff better, I had more confidence in myself. Um, so that was probably the start of my addiction. At about, you know, 10 to 11 years old, started with alcohol, um, wow, you know that's's.
Speaker 1:that's so early in life, you know it's just like you probably don't really know life without using and escaping much. I mean you probably don't have tons of memories before that. You know it's like that's been such a big part of your part of your story and part of your life. When did it start escalating to a place where even before you thought it was a problem? You, when did it start kind of you know?
Speaker 2:I knew it was a problem pretty early on. I knew it was a problem by the time I was probably say 13 or 14. By this time I had started using marijuana and I had, you know, in Oklahoma I had my driver's license at 14. You can get your motorcycle driver's license at 14. So you can legally drive, you know, a motorcycle down the highway. So I had transportation. Um, you know which, all of this my parents had no idea. You know, um, I can.
Speaker 2:My, my mother is actually, uh, she's a big scrapbooker. She has scrapbooks and picture books of like from the time I was born, you know, till probably. She made a scrapbook for me last year that has pictures of me. I mean, she is scrapbook city and so I can go back and I can look at this scrapbook and I can see it of me as a child. And you know, and I've gone through it with my mom to show her.
Speaker 2:I said you can see that there's this happy-go-lucky boy, that man, I was an All-American kid, boy Scouts. In fact I've still got my Pinewood Derby I don't know how familiar you are with Boy Scouts. It says I'm reconnecting. Is it getting trouble? No, I don't know how familiar you are with boy scouts, says I'm reconnecting. Is it getting trouble? No, I don't know about that. Okay, okay, so anyhow, um, pinewood derby uh, I won the pinewood derby little wooden model car that you race down the track.
Speaker 2:Um, I went to camps. I've got ward away, oh, um, you know, but in these scrapbooks you can kind of see, whenever I was a kid, how all of a sudden I look into my eyes first I can tell that there's just like a lost soul and that's probably, you know, age of 13 years old where I started rebelling. I started, you know, very quietly. My parents had no idea that none of this was going on. I didn't get caught with drugs in the house.
Speaker 2:I believe I was probably, I want to say, 16 or 17 when my mom found marijuana. Okay, by this time it's progressed not to regular cocaine use, but I did use cocaine before, you know, when I was 16 years old, Something I'm not proud of. It's part of my story though, you know, and it just it gave me a feeling of that. I was on top of the world, you know. So I went through school I was a kid, so I've got ADHD pretty bad. I've always been very it's very hard for me in the mornings. It's my hardest time. I wake up. I explain it to people Like I wake up and my brain's going down the autobahn, but I've not even made it outside my front door to walk yet to walk, you know so you almost just wake up to your brain already going.
Speaker 2:You wait miles an hour your brain's already going and you're already thinking about things. Um, so whenever I started, whenever I tried a stimulant for the first time, it obviously gave me a dopamine rush, but it actually kind of mellowed me out a little bit. It brought me, you know, down. I'm the kind of guy that I can drink three or four cups of coffee at midnight and then an hour later I can go to sleep. Um, so, you know, I have learned that. You know, people's brain chemistry is different. It really, you know, I would say that that chemistry is different. It really, you know, I would say that that that had a huge play in part in, um, my addiction to my drug of choice because of the ADHD. So, anyhow, fast forward, you know, I make it through high school. I graduate high school. I graduated in Bridgeport, texas. It's down by Fort Worth, a little town outside of Fort Worth. Okay, graduated in 2002. I actually got a scholarship. It was for a junior college where I could have got a free two-year associate's degree. I went up to Tonka Wall. It was several hours for my parents. I went up to Tonka Wall, it was several hours for my parents, and of course I started drinking and drugging and I lose my academic scholarship my first semester of college. So I ended up getting a job. I worked a couple jobs in college and this is where I kind of, you know, learn to become a functioning addict.
Speaker 2:Alcohol I've never just you know, I've had spurts of alcohol. I've always taken alcohol, been able to quit alcohol when I want to. It's never, you know, I'm not saying it could never be a problem at all. But alcohol for me, when I turned 21, I was obviously going into bars at a young age. In fact I just was reminiscing with my old friend, my friend that I drank with when I was a young kid. We're still very good friends to this day, still one of my best friends, I go see him and stuff. We were reminiscing about the time we had fake IDs and, uh, I was, I didn't even have a driver's license yet, I wasn't even 16. So I know I was 15 and we, we had these fake IDs and said we were like 24 years old and we go into it. We go to the nightclub and we got called out on it. But nightclub, and we got called out on it but managed to.
Speaker 1:Just oh no, we paid the guys off and said all right, we won't drink, just let us stay in, please, um wow that that kind of you know my side of um.
Speaker 2:You know impulse I do impulsive things with adhd and you know being, uh, you know being, you know having sexual abuse and then getting into narcotics, abusing narcotics. It just opened up a window for having, I wouldn't say, a weird sexual identity. I've always, you know, I've always known I was born a man and Jason's a guy, right, but I've had these desires to you. You know my one of my thing was cross-dressing, which it's really embarrassing to talk about.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, and it's things that I've worked through a therapist, through it's uh, you know, I'm starting to understand it. I've never fully understood it, you know. By the grace of God it's something that I have been able to overcome. Um, you know, and I believe a lot of it was tied to my drug of choice, because my drug of choice was methamphetamine and it, you know, releases so many chemicals in your brain. The pleasure sensors just go crazy. So then you start identifying things. What my therapist told me is it was actually what they call trauma reenactment, which sounds absolutely crazy, why anybody would do that, but it's a real thing. And so that's when, at a young age, I thought for a while, maybe, hey, this man did this to me. If I wouldn't have been a boy, know, if I wouldn't have wouldn't wouldn't have been a boy, if I would have been a girl, maybe this wouldn't have happened. So it really started, you know, and I it was going through puberty and you know this is obviously, you know, when I was still in junior high and stuff. I'm kind of skipping back and forth but that started kind of playing a role in my addiction, you know, is my own identity. I started losing my own identity as myself. So go back to college. So back, you know.
Speaker 2:Then I get to college and I'm using marijuana, of course. In Oklahoma at the time marijuana was there was no medical marijuana. Everything was illegal. You know, things are changing now depending on where you live, but at the time it was still illegal. I was using marijuana and I was using alcohol daily as a college kid.
Speaker 2:Then I started experimenting with impulsive sexual behavior. You know whether it's a man or a woman. You know, I just was kind of a lost soul, trying to find out, and that's something I struggled with really hard. Luckily, I had a good set of friends where it was almost a small town type deal. Where, gosh, if anybody ever found that out, you know, you're, you're, you're, you're shameful of it for yourself. You know, whenever I I didn't know what sex even was, and whenever I figured out what sex was, I had known that I'd been involved in having sex. You know, with the abuse, uh, it become a very shameful thing for me. It was hard to. It almost made me feel like people would think, you know, uh, you know, think that I was homosexual or something.
Speaker 2:You know in the area in Oklahoma is a very you know. I grew up with my grandpa, uh, mr Mennonite, very strict, uh, you know he didn't cuss. He would say the S word. I always thought that was cool. Why is such a godly person could say the S word? I always thought that was cool. Why is such a godly person could say the S word? Be fine. But my grandpa said in his ways is very black and white. I you know, uh, it was very, you know, common for my grandpa to say the N word. You know that was something that was said in his household.
Speaker 2:Um, I don't know that he had a slur for somebody that was homosexual. I don't really remember that, but I remember him. You know that that that being a thing, you know that would be in a thing that was taught to us. That that's not, you know, that's not a godly way. That's completely you know, you know. And so then you've got that shame you're doing so you're doing something, whether you're masturbating I was, I was cross-dressing, you know, young kid masturbating as well. So then it also puts it in your head that I'm not living, that you know I'm not living to my higher power, you know which? I didn't even know what a higher power meant at that yeah, jesus Christ is my higher path.
Speaker 2:So I didn't even know, you know it was. So I was very confused with I knew something happened to me. I knew what I was doing wasn't right. I knew that I was using something that was telling me it was bad, but it made me feel so good. So I knew I was just a very lost soul. I was just always kind of this perfect. You know I've related this before. You know addiction has a huge snowball effect, you know. So this was. You know I believe addiction is kind of a roller coaster.
Speaker 2:So at this point in my life I was on a downhill slide. On the snowball effect. I didn't have any. I was just trying to figure out life. I mean, I was a young 20-year-old kid. I started dating a little bit.
Speaker 2:It's always been awkward for me. Relationships have always been a hard thing for me. I've never really taken love. I've always taken it for granted. I've never really people. I've told people I love them. I have, you know, and I've used that. So I just, basically, I went through school.
Speaker 2:I actually went to Oklahoma State and I got narrow, you know, when I was at Tonka Wall that was a college where I lost my scholarship. I actually got arrested there. I got a DUI and I got arrested for marijuana. I had a few misdemeanor charges in my mom, of course you know freaked out thought that I was, you know, right on Because my mother, you know drug, drug addiction, is a bad thing in my family because my mother's a twin and my mother's twin died of overdose back in it was in the 70s. So drugs have always had a huge downfall. Look, you know, for my grandfather and my mother, just because you know my grandpa, my grandma, lost their son and my mother lost her twin, you know, to drug abuse. So drugs were always put in our head. It was our bad thing. But sometimes you know kids don't have a matter how bad you tell them it's a bad thing, they're going to do that. You know kids don't have matter how bad you tell them if it's a bad thing they're going to do.
Speaker 1:That you know Right, right. Well, especially when you're medicating and you had other, you know other things factoring in too. I mean, that's like man to to hear your story of trauma. Um, you know, when you look back on it it makes sense why you would run to those different things to try to cope.
Speaker 2:You know it, yeah you just ran to whatever I could you know um.
Speaker 2:You know my brother yeah I always wanted to be around my brother and tried to, and that's probably what played. A cool part is, you know me thinking it was cool to smoke cigarettes at a young age so you could actually be around somebody that was a little older, and it made comfort. It comforted me. I got picked on. I got bullied on quite a bit. I got called. You know, I wasn't not a very big guy, I wasn't really athletic, and there was a couple individuals and I remember they would call me a faggot and stuff and really, like, deep down, I knew I wasn't, I knew that something wasn't right with me, though, but it just kind of made a.
Speaker 2:I just lost all self-esteem, just thought you know? Yeah, my first suicide attempt was in fifth grade. I didn't want to live anymore. I was tired.
Speaker 1:Good grief.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I remember, in fact, I took a whole. It was Benadryl and it was in a square box, so I imagine there was at least maybe 15 capsules in this box of Benadryl or whatever. I took the whole box of Benadryl thinking that I probably would just die. And I remember my mom coming in the next morning waking me up. And I remember waking up and thinking what's going on, and, um, I said, mom, what's, what do you need? Or something like that. And she just said, well, I just wanted to tell you I love you. I remember I just, of course, I was very druggie, but I know, um, I decided I was probably supposed to live, for a reason you know, and I just, uh, that's what even made the order, you know, and I felt like I couldn't even uh, I hated myself so much, I couldn't even live with myself, you know, um, so yeah, you know, gosh, you just were.
Speaker 1:You were in so much pain, though from an early age.
Speaker 2:I mean, I just hear your story, I'm thinking it's such, that's such pain, you know well, you know pain, that that's where I was, you know it was put in my head to. You know we don't deal with pains. In fact I talked, you know, recently I've talked to my mother and I have my um uncle's baseball bat. That's the only thing I have with my uncle. I never even met my uncle I was unborn but when my uncle passed away they got rid of all of his stuff and one of the things in my grandparents' household growing up is that you didn't talk about feelings. So it was like my uncle never existed. They got rid of all of his baseball stuff, everything out of his room, pictures, everything. So at a young age that was put in, you don't deal with feelings. You paint this happy face and you go through life and then you just trust in God and pray about it and it'll work. In God and pray about it and it'll work. I have learned that taking feelings like that and bottling them up isn't a healthy way to deal with things at all. In fact, it just causes more trauma, which obviously can cause somebody with an addictive personality. They're going to find a way to vent, whether that's good or bad.
Speaker 2:I rolled through college, made it to Oklahoma State, rolled through college and I was starting to figure life out, I met a girl I fell head over heels in love with. She made me feel like a man, all those feelings you know of the cross dressing or whatever. You know, I didn't have any of those feelings. This was like God's answer for me to become a man and get my life started and have a family and everything like that. You know, obviously, still drinking, still using marijuana by this point I think I had tried every drug except meth. I still had not tried methamphetamine. I didn't come till later on in life.
Speaker 2:Okay, I've been at, you know I, I've done mushrooms in college, I did cocaine, I did ecstasy, I did you know everything and, uh, still was at the point where I thought I could just shut it off. You know, I thought, wow, you know, I can do a lot of drugs and I. But I, I mean gosh, I had two jobs, kept them. I was, I was learning to be a functioning addict, you know, um, I was learning how to uh say what I had to say to get through the day, but on the inside of just, you know, still using and being messed up.
Speaker 2:So I made it through school, graduated from Oklahoma State with a bachelor's degree in 2007, was out of college for one year, and Morgan was the girl that I married. We got married in January of 2008. We were married for three years. We went back out to my grandparents' farm in western Oklahoma, and so I was just a farmer. I mean, I was just an entrepreneur trying to make a living raising cattle. I've always, you know, been around livestock and ranching and farming, it's you know something that's very, you know, dear to me.
Speaker 2:Obviously, you know, living in Oklahoma is part of it too. But it got to a point where it didn't work out and Morgan had come up pregnant and so she wasn't supposed to be able to have kids. And I didn't want kids. I was going to get through life without having kids because I was scared to death that my kid like you know, my kids were going to have problems, or I wasn't going to be able to be a good dad to them, or they were going to. You know, I just had, I've always had this fear that, um, you know, I wasn't going to be a good dad or my kids were going to turn out to be addicts. So Morgan got off birth control and like two weeks later she's pregnant. And I just remember she got so mad at me because I went out. My friend, my friend Joe, lived down the road and I went to Joe's house and I mean, just got slobbering drunk and of course it was my wish, of course.
Speaker 2:I was scared to death. But I told her it was how I was celebrating. And uh came home and uh, you know, I think I even urinated in the bathtub. It was so bad, um, but we worked through it, wow, oh. And that pregnancy held and we didn't gosh. We didn't even have health insurance. We had. We had h and I set him my money up. We had her, and the day she was born I realized that I had a hand in responsibility of another human being, and that terrified me.
Speaker 2:Freaked you out, yeah, yeah, freaked me out big time. I didn't know what to do. It got to the point where I wasn't drinking all the time, but I would even have, I would put some vodka in my grape juice before church just just to get a buzz, you know, um, wow, it was tough. You know it's tough. It's hard for anybody to be a parent when you're an adult yourself. And then, uh, anyhow, that was around 2010 and we weren't, so, anyhow, that was around 2010. And we just couldn't. I had a new family, had a daughter, we didn't have health insurance.
Speaker 2:It was tough and it got to a point where I had to make a choice. I've got to go get me a career, you know. And so I thought, you know, I thought, being having a bad degree, I could just go get a job. Well, in 2010, the economy took a huge hit. They had the stock market had crashed, they had the mortgage crisis, and I ended up living in a little town in Nebraska, working at a feedlot, riding horses. And I was working. I was just, you know, working in a feedlot, riding horses um and I was work I was just, you know, working in a feedlot.
Speaker 2:All you do is you ride a horseback and you look for sick cattle and you have to either rope them or put them in a chute and give them a shot, and then so it's. It's where, you know, it's where the steak that you see in the grocery store comes from.
Speaker 2:You know what's the feedlot yeah I was working with guys that weren't even citizens, you know and I know. Going into this, I thought, oh, I got a bachelor's degree, I will get a good job. Well, I mean I got a good job. It had benefits, it made some good money, but I worked my butt off. I mean I did what I had to do. Sure, we did very well, but I didn't know anybody up there. It was a good time for me to start to get my head on my shoulders. We bought a house, we paid for a house. We didn't have a mortgage when we lived up there. We lived in a little town. I didn't know anybody to get marijuana from or anything like that, so I was just drinking. I would get some marijuana when I come home, but as far as the addiction goes, I wasn't doing anything sexual, I was enjoying life, and that went on for a year and a half to two years Moved back and I took the job that I have.
Speaker 2:Now I work for an insurance company that I have. Now I work for an insurance company. I took a job just as an adjuster and took a big pay cut to move back home, but I did what I could do just to get back to Oklahoma. And so I get back to Oklahoma and I realized I got to have a second job and I've always loved farming, ranching cowboy work, and so I get a job at the Stockyards. I've always loved farming, ranching cowboy work, and so I get a job at the Stockyards. Stockyards is a big livestock auction. It's a three-day sale. It's anywhere from 5,000 to 15,000 head of cattle run through there a week. It's a very busy work. I get a part-time job out there and that's where I was introduced to methamphetamine, and this was in 2013. That's when my addiction really, really took off. The guy that introduced it to me.
Speaker 2:I was working, so what I was doing is I was working my adjuster job, which is a 40-hour a week job, and then I was trying to work at the stockyards for two days. I was working about a 30-hour shift in two days and trying to almost basically have two full-time jobs. One can't do that without being under the influence of something to help them stay awake. I met a guy out there that was just a normal. You know, when I, when I think of meth, I see, I think of you know, you're driving down the highway and you see a billboard and it's got somebody that's got scabs all over their face. Yeah, they're gone, they're, uh, homeless, they're on the side, they're in psychosis, right, you don't think of somebody that lives in a home, has a family, you know, work every day, but so it was of that status.
Speaker 2:He was just a, in fact. I hey, I've got some stuff, you know, and um, he said, truck, you know, just just take a couple puffs of this and you'll be able to work all night, he said. But if you take too much of it, he said, you'll get real weird and you'll do stupid stuff. So I I had taken a puff or two, but before I even asked what it was, I took a puff or two of it and I was like oh, my gosh, yeah, and so, and so it's it's tasteless.
Speaker 1:Uh, it's just. Uh it was. I took a puff or two of it and I was.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh my gosh yeah, and so so it's, it's tasteless, uh, it's just uh. It was almost like I can, you can almost imagine hitting a vape and you it's got a little bit of a medic, like tastes like aspirin or something. But so I was like what was that? And he's like that's, that's, uh, crystal meth, that's methamphetamine, and I thought, oh my, oh no, what you know.
Speaker 1:What have I done?
Speaker 2:Die you know, so I went on and worked and it was one of those things where it I would go to work and it would be there, and so I would take one or two puffs of it and I could work. I could literally work sitting on a horse anywhere from 20 to 30 hours. I would obviously get off to go to the bathroom or grab a beer or something like that. But when you do that type of work I would take four or five horses to work with me. You just do cowboy work like that. It's just part of it, not really realizing that I was depleting my body of nutrients. Um, you know not, not not just the drugs, but even if I wasn't on drugs, I mean just to stay hydrated enough to do that type of work and to keep food in your body. And you know nutrients, that so you can burn. You know calories and stuff.
Speaker 2:So I slowly yeah one day a week turned into two days of work, turning three days a week, turned into four days a week. And then pretty soon, um, you know, fast forward a few years, I was in full-blown addiction in methamphetamine. I was, I was, I was going to work, uh, I was buying it, which I was buying it by like an ounce at a time, which is a lot, um, you know, and I would take that home. I was, I would take that home and that would last me, you know, maybe three weeks, it might last for five weeks. It was getting to be a bad thing. It was beginning to take a full time second job to support my drug habit. I mean my drug habit, I'm sure you know, obviously I'm just some, you know, pale face white kid, that I don't know. I was getting ripped off big time but it was almost a mortgage payment, you know, to support this of doing methamphetamine. You know, methamphetamine is cheap at first until you started getting addicted to it, you know. But the people that were selling it to me, like I'm saying they're probably making money, but you don't care, you know, you took your, I was to the right, I wasn't, I wasn't getting really just crazy out there, but I was.
Speaker 2:I couldn't function without it and so, by this addiction, my job takes me out of town and so the cross-dressing took back off. I would say that I had to be out of town and I would find myself in a motel using methamphetamines. Find myself in a motel, um, using methamphetamines. Um, you know, uh, dressing up as a woman, uh, sleeping with men, sleeping with women, stuff that I'm very ashamed of. Um, you know, it's something that you know, I've learned that they're, they're with this certain drug, uh, it's called chem sex and it goes hand in hand, which I don't really want to get into all that. But what I'm saying is I'm ultimately responsible for my.
Speaker 2:I knew what I was doing and my behavior, but I couldn't control it. I was just basically a zombie to this drug. So I tried to get clean, um, so I tried to get clean, um, I actually had had a uh, a bad uh episode where I'd been up for several days. I came home, I was I mean, it's horrible to think about it I stopped at the babysitter and picked my daughter up, drove my daughter home, and I got home and my wife had gotten home and I went out. I was outside, I was, I was, I was so delusional that I thought there was deer and spiders that were running in my yard and I was trying to catch them.
Speaker 2:And I, I mean I'm, I in my mind, I'm thinking I'm going to, I really want to catch one of these deer, cause I want to put a saddle on and ride it, like I thought it would be cool. And so my wife outside and she's like, what are you doing? And I'm, of course, I'm rummaging through the trees, I'm like you know, I was telling, I was like you don't see those, those deer, like, apparently, I said I that they start out as spider bodies and they grow into a deer. And I was just, I was um.
Speaker 2:So she took me to the doctor, you know, called my family, um, we went to the emergency room and, um, it was actually her mother. Said, hey, they want to take you down to the main campus to do like we think something might be wrong with your brain and we need it, wanted, they want to do a cat scan. Well, what, not knowing at the time, what they were wanting to do was to put me in the psych ward, um, and you have to go. So whenever you go to the psych ward, you have to, um, voluntarily go, you know, unless you're suicidal, you know, and I wasn't suicidal, um, but I was very delusional. I was very delusional and so I agreed to go, and, um, I remember I went down to, uh, um to this, to the main campus in Oklahoma city, had no idea where I was, was there for several days.
Speaker 2:And when I was in there I told myself, you know, hey, you've got a huge problem, like you know, your wife is. You know, know, I had a very caring wife. She was going crazy with, you know, thought something was wrong. She had no idea. I mean absolutely no idea, right? Um, I had become such a master disguiser and hider of it that, um, you know, she'd even caught me one time smoking meth in front of her and I had played it off that it was marijuana, you know, and she was that naive, you know, I was that good at lying to her. So, anyhow, while I was in the psych ward, I thought to myself hey, you know, you've, basically, you know, you've got three options here. You know, people, don't, people that use this substance either die or they end up going to prison, or they end up on the side. You know, homeless lose everything. You know, or you know, or you see you're going to have to pay something.
Speaker 2:And so I did. So you're going to have to say something, and so I did. I came clean and I told her that you know I had a methamphetamine problem. Of course, by this time I'd been in the psych ward for about four or five days. She'd gone through all of my stuff. She had found some of the cross-dressing clothes you know, which. She had known a little bit about it, in fact at first. When the first time she found it, she thought I was cheating on her. She thought it was another woman's clothing.
Speaker 1:Oh, right right.
Speaker 2:It's very hard to say no, because you know that she doesn't believe you to say no, those are actually mine, yeah, you know. But so she'd gone through my stuff and I told her. I said, look, I've got a problem, I'm using methamphetamine. The cross-dressing has come back. It's gotten to the point where you know I would go. You know I was going to um, they have a district, an area in oklahoma city that you can go to and like for drag shows and they're. They're bars that tend to more of the homosexual lifestyle and stuff. But that's somewhere I could go. I would be, you know, high on methamphetamine and I could cross dress and go to a place like this and nobody would you know, everybody else was, I guess, like that too, or whatnot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Uh anyhow, so I came yeah.
Speaker 2:And, uh, I went to treatment and and I went to a place in Harrison, michigan it's called gosh it's been so long I can't think of the name of it. I'll tell you how good of a place it was. It was a little 30 days, so it was the dead of winter. Harrison, michigan Flew up there. I didn't want to go to rehab, I wanted to get clean up there. I didn't want to go to rehab, I wanted to get clean off meth. I didn't want to go to rehab. In fact, my brother flew up there with me and I bought beer after beer after beer after beer on the plane right up there. And I got there and I was dead set that I wanted to come home. You know I could get clean at home and I'll just figure out how to do it. I got myself in this mess. I can get myself out.
Speaker 2:So I said what I had to do. I mean, it was literally 30 days and I was out of there and I came back home and I remember wanting to quit. I really did want to quit doing meth and um, but within two weeks I was already smoking marijuana, you know, um within probably, I would say. I would say I probably made it six months, very hard. Six months, but I would say probably within six months. I was using methamphetamine. There was no meetings. I didn't do any meetings. I did no groups. I had a therapist at the time. This was, you know, when I got out of this place Behavioral Rehabilitation Services, brs is what it was called I got a therapist.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I got a therapist named Dr Wyatt in Oklahoma city. Um, I started seeing her, started seeing other therapists and basically just white knuckled it and that's why it only lasted very long, obviously, um, but I was yeah, I wasn't in heavy meth use like I was before. I would, I would use it once and I would be off of it for maybe three months, maybe a month, maybe four months, maybe two weeks, just wasn't, you know, didn't get. Um, I, I did that route for a few years, until 2020. And's when my grandpa, father, passed away. Uh, my grandfather, you know, was played a huge, huge role in my life. Uh, my grandpa, I owe it to my grandfather, he's taught me pretty much. You know, um, I'm kind of a one-man band, you know, I can, I can weld, I can do electric work, I can, I can build anything and I grew I owe that to him growing up on, yeah, with him and stuff.
Speaker 2:So when my grandpa passed and you know, my grandpa, this was during covid my grandfather had gotten alzheimer's and went to the um memory care unit and I got to go see him, you know, every week, and then covid hit about a month and a half late after he was in there and all contact was shut off. I didn't see my grandpa. I got to see him on FaceTime a couple times, which he didn't really know what FaceTime was. Also he had dementia Tough, he would get angry, he'd put it very hard. Uh, in december they called us, you know, and I what I would do is I would go, I would go see my grandpa and I would secretly record my grandfather and I having these conversations on my phone. I still go back and look at him this day because you know it's, I knew my, I knew it was coming to an end. I knew that by the time I saw my grandpa he was a person that was just a walking body. My grandpa's soul wasn't really in there.
Speaker 2:So I took it very hard that's whenever I started getting back into getting back into meth to cope with my feelings. You know, he passed away. They called us and said that we had, you know, just a little bit before he passed. So we actually all got to go up there and hold his hand and say our goodbyes and I remember leaving there no, you know I was. I went home to pack bag and I was going to go stay with my grandma and in the meantime my grandpa passed and I was so mad at the circumstances that I thought, you know, I don't know any other way to get through this than to use methamphetamine. So I stopped at my drug dealer's house and that's, you know, kind of when my addiction took back off. That was in 2020. That was December.
Speaker 1:Was that the catalyst that kind of took you towards that second round? We were taking you to the Valiant and kind of, was that?
Speaker 2:Yep, this is where this is exactly what led me to Valiant those two years, gotcha, I did not want to. I didn't want to do anything. I would use. I was angry at the world, I was angry at God, and I didn't care. I thought, you know, I've been a drug addict for most of my life. There isn't anything out there that's ever going to change me. I can't do it. I can't do it, and so, anyhow, I used.
Speaker 2:I got to a point in September of 2022 where I had to do something and I uh set my wife down and I told her exactly, you main thing was I was trying to uh tell her that I had a drug problem, and I did, and I told her a lot of other things. You know that uh just laid it out, but I needed help and I, yeah, at this point I really didn't want to live anymore. And uh, I was ready to go and they put me in the psych ward because I was suicidal. And when I was in the psych ward, you know, my therapist reached out to a lady in Arizona and it was a place called Gentle Pen. They didn't know if it was quite a fit for me or not and that lady said I know a guy named Mike Dineen, you know, maybe he could help us. And so I mean, this is within maybe five hours, four or five hours, of being let out of the psych ward.
Speaker 2:Knowing that I needed to go somewhere, but not knowing where. So I went out to Mike Dineen. My therapist did, and Mike Dineen I don't know why, but he he actually drove to the airport, got on a plane and flew to Oklahoma and so I get out of the psych ward and I'm like wow like you know, of course, I have no idea where I'm that I'm going to Denver.
Speaker 2:I have. I've always loved going to Denver. I've always loved going to Denver. It's a great area. I go snow skiing every year, so I'm kind of familiar with the area. And so we leave the psych ward and I'm like it's my mother and my wife and I know I'm in trouble, bad trouble, and they're like the guy that's going to meet you at the airport, you're going to go to Denver for a little while. I was like what do you mean? I'm going to go to Denver for a little while? Well, we're going to put you in rehab. And I was like, look, I don't know, I did a rehab. They're like this is a different rehab. I was like, well, good. I was like, well, good, I hope I'm not going to the same crap hole I went before. They're like, well, they had this huge suitcase. I'm like, well, that's a lot of clothes for 30 days. They're like, no, you're going out there for a while. I'm like, well, what about my job? Because I've been with the insurance company since 2011,. 11 and a half.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh and uh, they had already called my boss, you know, um. So I thought you know what. I'm just going to go to Denver and I'm going to try to figure out who in the heck Jason is, and cause I'm dang near 40, you know, I'm like I'm'm gonna end up dead and so but I I mike denine comes the airport and he, he's talking I don't remember much, I remember he's talking to my mom and he's talking to my wife about how it's gonna go and he'll get to a point where he can work up there and have his vehicle. Oh man, so we, we have a little bit of a wait for the plane, so we go over there. And I told him. I said, look, you know, of course. I said look, I don't really know if you're the owner of this rehab, you know, and if you say you are, that's cool. I'm just a head guy, you know. I was like. I asked him. I said hey, yeah.
Speaker 2:My mom gave me $100. Can I go over there and have a drink? And he's like man. He's like you're fixing to change your life, go ahead. You're fixing to go to rehab for a while. He said you're not going to see that stuff for a while. And I thought man, this guy there, for a while and I thought man, this cat, yeah. And so I sit there and I drink everything but about ten dollars worth because I needed a pack of cigarettes. And so, right, talk to mike, and I get to you know, and I he starts telling me about you know, some of his story and stuff. And and of course, we, uh, we fly to denver, um, and he takes me out to the farm. I go to the, I go to the call it the farms, the detox center. I was out there for about three.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you started detox.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I started detox and by this point I I did not have methamphetamine in my system Cause I had been in the psych ward for you know five days, which I didn't throw that part in there. I think that's kind of how I got denine to laugh. I broke out of the psych ward actually and uh, on the run for a little bit and I always thought, you know, it's very odd that they're taking a chance on me, you know. And then now I see this in my sober mind and clean mind that, like, I was a very delusional person and they took a chance on me, and so that's.
Speaker 1:How long did you end up staying there at that?
Speaker 2:I stayed from set. I got to Valiant on I believe it was a seven and I left too early. I left. I was home on the 29th of December. I should have looking back on it and I told some of the guys in PHP this and I know this sounds really weird, but I would almost trade you right now to say that, php, if I could get off work for three like, soak this up while you can.
Speaker 2:As I was there, the um I think I was there was around 100 days somewhere there, um, but I do, uh, um, I was actually. I was very convinced something was wrong with their breathalyzer, because I got there after drinking about six doubles and I blew up 0.00. And I thought, man, this is a Mickey Mouse place, I'm going to be able to drink and I'm going to be able to use drugs when I'm in here, because I just drank a lot of alcohol and their little intake breathalyzer is already showing zero, like right, right, I need a good place. I don't need you know, I don't need no. And so I stayed in detox and I wrote myself a couple messages they had.
Speaker 2:They had a mirror and they had these dry erase markers. And I remember there was a phrase, and I don't know why it came in my head, but I remember thinking to myself don't work the program, let the program work you. And I think a lot of that was because I had it in my head after drinking at the airport for several hours and I'd already figured out that their breathalyzer probably was crap. You know, if I could side drink and not get caught you know right, that's right.
Speaker 2:So that's probably what put it in my head Let the program, you know, don't work the program. Let the program work you. So I go through detox. A man by the name of Lister picks me up, scott Lister picked me up, drove me in Denver. Picks me up, scott Lister picked me up, drove me in Denver. I still thought the cops were after me and they drove me up to the Valiant building, which looks very similar to an FBI building. So I'm in the truck and he's like all right, we're here. I'm like, well, I'm just going to stay. So, anyhow, they're fixing to get me. Anyhow, I go in and they take my bag. I meet my case manager, jr, a great guy. I meet this guy and he takes me to a little lunch place in there. By then I'm starting to figure out man, this is you're going to like.
Speaker 2:By then I had the want to do, like to try something, just to give anything a try, because I tried a typical rehab, I tried therapist, I tried praying, I tried to quit for my kids. I tried to quit for my daughter my wife, you know, to quit for my daughter, my wife, you know. Um, so by then those are kind of starting to turn, of dude, you're gonna be here a while. Um, yeah, you're a unique individual. By then I'd kind of met some of you guys that were in the program already and I was like, right, right, it's always been hard for me to fit in, right, like I've always had that itch inside of me that I'm not normal or don't fit in. And I remember, in fact, the first day I thought I even messed up because I rode with the guys and they picked everybody up at the gym and I was sitting in the front seat I guess there was this other individual, that it was his seat, you know, and so on.
Speaker 1:I remember that yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember riding on the way home thinking, man, I done pissed this guy off because I'm in the. I'm just sitting where I'm supposed to. The guy told me I didn't want to be weird and sit in the back with the driver up in the front.
Speaker 1:I know.
Speaker 2:I'm like dude, I'm already pissing people off what am I gonna do?
Speaker 1:that was old, that was old man steve's seat.
Speaker 2:Bro, I can't get an old man steve's seat that because I remember it's going to be interesting and I was like, oh, I didn't want it, like you know, I didn't know, like if I was supposed to be tough guy, because you're, like, you know, if you don't want to have the mentality supposed to be the tough guy, that doesn't let somebody just snowball over me, you know, because, right, right, right, it feels like you're going into what I, you know, I mean, I've never been to prison, but I would think what like a jail or prison would be like, you know, um so everyone's like scoping each other out and trying to decide.
Speaker 1:Like you know, we're all looking at each other, trying to figure out who's who and yeah what's?
Speaker 2:that's what I exactly want to do. Is this guy an alcoholic, this guy's on opioids, this guy's? You know, I was completely wrong.
Speaker 1:Yep, stuff, yeah but so I got into the house well, talk to me a little bit about, like post post, valiant couple of years. Tell me about just what recovery has been like for you since you've been out.
Speaker 2:Since I've been out. It's been very challenging. I got out and the whole divorce thing has played a huge role. Uh, you know, my daughter. I've got a daughter that uh will be 14 at the end of April. Um, who you know, I haven't had any contact with since August. Um, it's been real tough. Okay, uh, it's since I've got that stuff yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, life has been super, like, um hard. I've had struggles, um you know, but I've done something in my program I got to talk to I was talking to Mike Wagner about it the other day and we were sitting at the ski slopes and I said, you know, I realized now the snowball effect with with recovery. I said, you know, people always want to just get clean and they think that's where it all. You know, their life comes back together as soon as you get out of the program and stuff. And for me I related to this. I said, mr Wagner, it's like this snowball, like I've worked so hard. I'm, you know, I'm pushing this snowball up the hill and it's starting to build. I'm pushing this snowball up the hill and it's starting to build.
Speaker 2:When I went to Valiant, that's why I opened up and I got all this. It's like I purred People that have an eating disorder. They feel bad about themselves because they eat and they go throw up. Well, when I was in Valiant, I felt bad about all the stuff that I'd done through my addiction, that I threw it all up in Valiant and I told you know, just like sitting here with you, drew, it's, you know, um, it's some of the things like, as far as you know, cross-dressing and things like that. It's tough to tell people it's tough, it's a tough, you know, it's it's. It's tough to fight, but it's, it's me. And so I purged myself when I was in there and that stuff all come out, and so my snowball slowly rolled up the hill and then, you know, you get to a point where, if you slip up one time, that snowball is going to come right back down the hill and it's going to get bigger and that, to me, is playing the whole tape.
Speaker 2:I use methamphetamine today because you know that would happen. I'm waiting for that snowball to tip over the hill and start rolling down and get bigger. You know, I've had opportunities that I, um, you know, haven't in the past, and that's just because I've gotten off of methamphetamine, you know. But as far as my, my, my life is still tough. I still have every day-to-day challenges in life. Sometimes I can sit there and say, man, it really sucks today. But I've gotten involved. Narcotics Anonymous is what I go to. I've gotten involved with service work, reach out to people. I stay connected to guys in valiant um. You know there's about four or five people you know that I keep in touch with and talk to um and I have just, you know, a lot for me since after rehab.
Speaker 1:The beauty of it is, manager, I'm accepted. Sorry, go ahead, finish that. Thought that's good.
Speaker 2:Well, that's what the thing about it is is I'm where I've accepted the fact that I'm going to have to. You know I'm going to have to deal with this for the rest of my life. I'm going to have to. You know what I do today. In fact, honestly, if you ask me how many days I'm clean, I don't have a number for you. My way of doing it is I don't count anymore. I do the just for today approach, where I take my hour and I say the third step, prayer just for today, and I try to do that every single day and it's helped out a bunch of things. I'm hoping that'll come around with my daughter things, or I'm hoping that'll come around with my daughter, um, but you know that's something that I've accepted, that you know it might be. Take till she has her own kids to see that that, you know, really is dad got clean for being a drug addict. You know, um, and that's part of it.
Speaker 2:I feel like that's uh, I believe in karma too, and I'm kind of going through some of the karma, but I'm very, very grateful that I'm able to cry today. I cry, I'm an emotional person, I cry a lot, I share groups, I do cry, and I'm able to do that without having to be under the influence. So that's what's great.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah you're showing up and you're, you're feeling your feelings. That's what I was saying earlier, man. It's like your ability to actually feel what you need to feel and to deal with it, and like that's. That's what keeps us from you know, we say it all the time opposite addiction is not sobriety, but it's connection, being connected to our feelings and and other people. I'm curious, what, what would you say to someone listening to this that has been where you've been? What kind of encouragement would you give to that person? Who's who's like man?
Speaker 2:I don't know if I can clean or not uh, the only advice I would give is to you know and and I don't know, everybody says this differently what it took for me was it took you know. For one thing you got to realize what your bottom is. Because you know I've got a good job that I've done with the company through two rehabs, right. I'm very grateful for that. Not everybody has that ability to do that. Not everybody has the ability to even live in a house or to some people might take jail. But to realize what your rock bottom is and just to really do some soul searching.
Speaker 2:It costs a lot of money to go to a place like Valiant. Valiant is not a cheap place as far as that goes. Any rehab, if you look at it compared to the white knuckle coach, if you're willing to invest your time, if you're really going to invest your money to go into a place, you've really got to invest your time in yourself. That's what it took to me. It took me to that point. It took me to get to the point where I can tell these guys, you know, and maybe maybe you can humble yourself by going to club greenwood and getting in the hot tub, maybe it'll take that because, uh, when you get to that in front of you, you might realize that you don't care anymore.
Speaker 2:You're just gonna let it all out and then, if they want to judge you on that, then they. They can judge you on it, and so for me it really took letting go of things that were an obstacle in hindering me from loving myself and getting that stuff out. I would give advice to say how you honestly feel. You know, don't sugarcoat it. You know, if it's I did some embarrassing things through addiction. You know I took it's just tip the iceberg. You know I can't go into. You know, and sometimes you know accepting yourself for doing those things and realizing that you can be a good person.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't know what you know for me it's just opening the door and holding it for somebody or doing an act of kindness For me, you know. I would say, you know, do it feet first and don't, you know, don't hold anything back, because you know you're going to get out of it what you put into it and that's why, honestly, I hope I don't never have to go to a recovery center to be in the, to be in there. I I plan on, you know, um, like last week or the week before, I can't remember it's been when, when I was in Denver, um, you know, seeing the guys and stuff. I plan on, you know, staying connected to a thing like that, Um, but I would just say, you know, you really have to want to do it for yourself or you're just wasting your time, Cause I went down that road where I tried, looking back on it, it was just I didn't, you know, get out of a way to put into it, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, bro, thank you so much for sharing your some of your story with us today.
Speaker 2:Man, You're crushing it. I hope I'm awesome. What's that? I should have had a written script, you know.
Speaker 1:No, that wouldn't be you man. That's not how you roll.
Speaker 2:Testimony. You know that's another thing I do is I have my testimony. My testimony is up on my shelf there. It's about um, it's about eight pages and one thing I had a guy in there I try to read it every now and again and I try to read through it without crying and when I get to a point I can start reading through without crying, then then that is uh where you need to be at. But, um, don't forget about your past, man, because your past is who you are, it's made you, it's always going to be part of you. And I feel like if I forget about my past, I could very easily slip back into heavy drug addiction easily. So I try not to forget about that, but I also keep that as a thought of why I don't want to live that way and how I want to continue to change. You know, do the right thing.
Speaker 1:Well, we appreciate you listening to this episode of the Valiant Living Podcast and our hope is that it helped you feel educated, encouraged and even empowered on your journey towards peace and freedom. If we can serve you or your loved one in any way, we'd love to have a conversation with you. You can call 720-756-7941 or email admissions at valiantlivingcom. At Valiant Living, we treat the whole person so you not only survive, but you thrive in the life you deserve. And finally, if this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean a lot to us if you'd subscribe and even share it with your friends and family. You can also follow along with us on Instagram and Facebook by simply searching Valiant Living. Thanks again for listening and supporting the Valiant Living podcast. We'll see you next week.