When laughter and transformation intertwine, you're in for a story that will tug at your heartstrings and tickle your funny bone. My friend Shan, a Valiant Living alumnus with an infectious sense of humor, joins me to share his riveting journey from the depths of addiction to the heights of sobriety. We travel back to the days when his vibrant personality was dimmed by substances, and celebrate his return to a life filled with clarity, peace, and his undiminished wit. Exploring Shan's fears, joys, and insights, we uncover the complexities of maintaining one's essence amidst life's tumultuous changes.
Each story shared is a patch in the quilt of our collective experience, where the threads of struggle and triumph are interwoven. We start at the beginning, with the intervention that brought us face-to-face with our realities, to the poignant process of detox that tested our resolve. The fabric of our narrative is rich with the honesty and connection that have become the cornerstones of healing. Listeners will find themselves immersed in candid accounts that highlight the power of community and the resilience of the human spirit, as we acknowledge the shared battles fought and victories won on the road to recovery.
Our conversation culminates in a celebration of the unshakable bonds formed through the trials of rebuilding trust, navigating early recovery, and finding strength in vulnerability. I open up about my personal evolution—how dropping manipulative behaviors has helped me mend relationships and embrace faith in my journey forward. We conclude by reflecting on the liberating power of breaking free from addiction's mental prison, emphasizing that true freedom comes through honest connection. The stories we share are a testament to the indomitable will to overcome and the transformative impact of reaching out and holding on to one another.
When laughter and transformation intertwine, you're in for a story that will tug at your heartstrings and tickle your funny bone. My friend Shan, a Valiant Living alumnus with an infectious sense of humor, joins me to share his riveting journey from the depths of addiction to the heights of sobriety. We travel back to the days when his vibrant personality was dimmed by substances, and celebrate his return to a life filled with clarity, peace, and his undiminished wit. Exploring Shan's fears, joys, and insights, we uncover the complexities of maintaining one's essence amidst life's tumultuous changes.
Each story shared is a patch in the quilt of our collective experience, where the threads of struggle and triumph are interwoven. We start at the beginning, with the intervention that brought us face-to-face with our realities, to the poignant process of detox that tested our resolve. The fabric of our narrative is rich with the honesty and connection that have become the cornerstones of healing. Listeners will find themselves immersed in candid accounts that highlight the power of community and the resilience of the human spirit, as we acknowledge the shared battles fought and victories won on the road to recovery.
Our conversation culminates in a celebration of the unshakable bonds formed through the trials of rebuilding trust, navigating early recovery, and finding strength in vulnerability. I open up about my personal evolution—how dropping manipulative behaviors has helped me mend relationships and embrace faith in my journey forward. We conclude by reflecting on the liberating power of breaking free from addiction's mental prison, emphasizing that true freedom comes through honest connection. The stories we share are a testament to the indomitable will to overcome and the transformative impact of reaching out and holding on to one another.
Well, hey, everyone. Welcome to the Valiant Living podcast, where we educate, encourage and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom. I'm your host, drew Powell, and I'm a grateful alumni of the Valiant Living program. Valiant Living offers hope and transformational change to men and their families struggling with addiction and mental health challenges. So on this podcast you'll hear from the Valiant team, as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at 720-756-7941 or you can email admissions at valiantlivingcom. We'd love to have a conversation with you, but for now, let's dive into today's episode. Man, I'm I'm just thrilled to see you on here today. Man I've I've legitimately missed you.
Speaker 2:Me too, me too, me too, I was. I was thinking about how much you impacted me when, when you first came out to the house you remember the first time we met I do and you come out from that's right by the sink there in Foxfield, and it was just the story I remember. I needed to hear because I was hurting, my soul, was in pain and I did not want to be there, and you were the perfect guy to come up with your own tale of attempted escapes and and it definitely, it definitely powered me through three months, and so I got to thank you. I'm glad to connect with you again.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's kind of you to say, man, I, I, I remember seeing you and someone had told me hey, you should I forget who it was I would connect with Shannon if you get a chance to think you guys would be buddies and and it's like he's got some young kids and you know, and man, when I saw you that day, I just, I don't know man, my heart went out because I remember, I just remembered being in that space, being like what am I doing here? I'm so far away from my kids. A lot of guys live in Denver and they're pretty close, they're kids, but I'm like am I screwing these kids up for the rest of their life? Am I, you know, are they going to be okay? And you were having all those fears and I just kept thinking if he could, just if he can, power through this next couple of weeks, you know he'll.
Speaker 1:I mean and you did man, you did the work Dude I'm so grateful for just used to hanging in there. It's awesome.
Speaker 2:Amazing, I mean it's still. You know, I'm almost nine months into this thing and people that really just I mean they, they are so invested in you and they want the best for you, right? These are people in meetings, people you meet by the sink and Fox fields, you know, and it's they really want you to just just tough it out, just make it for a few more weeks until a little bit more takes hold, which is exactly what I needed to have happen. But I couldn't see that from that sink and Fox field man, I needed to get out of there with every fiber of my body. Yeah, and it really helped that you, you were able to impart a similar story on me and then give me just enough encouragement, and then you and I kept talking.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we became buddies and you were such a great resource for me yeah.
Speaker 1:You, you make me laugh harder than just about anybody on the planet. Dude, like you, just, you're sense of humor and this way you see the world. Bro, so funny the fact that you were able to, like you're agreed to come on the podcast. I mean no pressure, but you just, I don't know you just, and when we became so, I was visiting, I was going back to Denver to visit, doing work, and we became buddies so I would see you every couple of weeks when I come back and I could just see the progress because you went from the, the sink moment, where I was like man I hope this guy makes it, but he's really hurting to like coming back and watching you thrive, man Like I could. Your countenance was different, and then it was on those later trips I got to see, experience, your sense of humor, and that's when, like you know, shan was starting to like come back alive again and that was super fun, man Cause we, you know, we got to share a lot of laughs and you know I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did. Yeah, and it's a larger than life personality too, man. You know, that is really gratifying to hear, because I'm not saying I'm some kind of standup comedian, but I was absolutely sure I was a lot funnier on cocaine and certainly booze than I would ever be sober. And the fact that you'll get a comment in passing that's like hey, man, you really cracked me up and it changes the whole belief system for me because I'm like really I was funny because I was completely fucked up and totally uninhibited and willing to say totally ridiculous things. So thank you for that compliment.
Speaker 1:Well, it is funny, man, like I may have been funny about the word, but that's a big passion of mine. Moving forward is and I talked to Brady about this a lot that was in treatment there. Like life is so much better on the other side. But there is that fear that am I going to be as funny or as entertaining or as excited for life? I mean all the things like I don't know if I'm not even like myself when I'm not using. We all go through that and then you realize, wait a minute, being present and having peace and all those things is so much better than the wild nights and waking up, right.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing. And if God came down and gave me some choice and was like, hey, I'll give you inner peace and some contentment and a little self confidence and you got to trade your sense of humor, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'd make any deal you want. But the truth is you can kind of find both. But you don't know. Because drinking and using were such a big part of my life from such an early age, I mean such a consistent component of my daily life, that when you're liberated from these things, you're not sure what you're going to be. This is a big chunk of time and bodily metabolism that was devoted to drinking and using. And here I am now and I'm starting to like myself. I'm not totally freaked out by the creature that's emerged, the 46 year old creature. That's amazing. So that's true dude.
Speaker 1:Well, take us back, man. I'd love to hear just some of your story, as much of it you're willing to share. Take us back to just your childhood, where you grew up and how this being called Shan has come to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, boy, it's all in a name. I'll get to that. When I was born, my dad called me Sean and my mom called me Shan. She was probably a doomed relationship if they couldn't agree on their kid's name. I don't know if you're telling me that at Starbucks.
Speaker 1:I thought you were joking when you said. I was like no, I think the oh, the breeze to call you Sean and I was like do you not correct them? You just let them call you Sean when it's Shan. And then you told me that and I was like what? You were called two different names by your parents from the jump.
Speaker 2:You can't screw it up, that's right, you know, and I've been called every four letter word in the book. So you know I'm like you run with it. Yeah, just don't call me. You know F face or something. You know, sean Shan, shan, shan Shan. You know, shan, I've heard it all. Sure, I've heard it all. It's okay. I don't even know who I am, so who?
Speaker 1:am I to?
Speaker 2:correct you.
Speaker 1:But I wonder if that did have some sort of I mean, did that come up in therapy at all?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, I mean, and it's. I think it's good that I have. You know, I'm sort of lighthearted about it, although it has caused some sort of consternation throughout my life. You know, especially being, you know this, you're being a big guy, right. You know there are certain sort of cultural expectations that you're going to have. You know you're going to be, you know, tough and you're going to be, you know, decisive and you're going to know what you want and tell people. You know you're going to be a leader and blah, blah, blah. There's no evidence, and so it's. And you know, and I've always been somebody who's been really sort of uncomfortable in their own skin, you know I I'm a 6, 6, 280 pound X football player, yeah, and I look in the mirror and I see, you know, I see a 5 foot 4, you know little Japanese guy. It's, it's crazy.
Speaker 1:I feel, this crazy I'm a big guy and I don't care if that way. Oh, if I was in a, if I was in a back alley and I came up against someone half my size, I'd be so afraid. I don't realize that. You know I'm a 6 4, you know I'm. I'm carrying a little more weight than you are these days, shane, but I'm a 300 pound 6 4 guy. I do not think that way in my mind. I don't see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you got all that hair too. Give me a couple extra pounds on there. Well, it's beautiful locks. I.
Speaker 1:Don't think that's pounds, maybe a couple ounces. But you're being kind, I'll trade you.
Speaker 2:Thank God, I'm ready to make another trade.
Speaker 1:You're doing a bunch of deals with the Lord.
Speaker 2:I want to be drew power.
Speaker 1:Oh man, you got a set the bar higher than that, bro my sponsor keeps saying it's not a transactional thing.
Speaker 2:I say, I know, but you still try, can't you? Just in case.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious.
Speaker 2:All right, so you were born, shanshaw, and more shanshaw and I would introduce myself, since I Was the only, my mom's only child. My dad had had two kids previous the previous marriage. I Was very caught up from an early age about not wanting to seem Loyal or disloyal to one or the other. Right, so I would introduce myself to everyone. Is shan or Sean? I'd say, hi, my name is shan or Sean, and you know it's polite. I went to you know, into an episcopal school and I'd shake their hand. They'd say shan or Sean. It's an interesting name. And I'd say, no, it's Shan or Sean. And they'd say, well, you know, I just met you. What would you like me to call you? And I'd say, well, it's your choice. And They'd say, well, why don't you tell me?
Speaker 2:And it would be these really awkward interactions like for like a six-year-old, you know, I'd get find myself in these loops. I didn't know where to go. And so it was after getting you know, heavily teased by this kid named Darrell at YMCA camp when I was eight years old, that I sat my parents down and I said, from here on out, it's Sean. Shan sounds like a wimp and I'm not gonna be a wimp anymore, I'm gonna be Sean, I'm gonna be normal and I think my mom was a bit crestfallen that she'd lost that and they divorced soon after. But, but, yeah, but I went from from when I was eight, everything simplified because it was Sean. Everybody like, oh, sean, sean, sean, sean, sean. I spelled it wrong, but that didn't matter. I couldn't get my own customized BMX license plate, you know, like all the kids had in the you know late 80s right, which was Unfortunate, but um, but it was, you know it.
Speaker 2:Like life was easier and I was, and I felt more sort of a part of yeah, and I think that that's a theme throughout my life where I just have felt like an alien who did not get the manual, did not know how to conduct themselves, how to handle themselves. I didn't feel like I got a whole lot of parenting, like my dad was 49 when he had me he was like, just go do whatever the heck you want to do. You know I'm all stocked up on raising kids. I got a I got to in college when you were born, so you know so this. So I never had that sort of mirroring or that modeling and I got a lot of it from.
Speaker 2:My mom loved Magnum PI. Yeah, she would watch Magnum PI up in the attic of our house, yeah, and I would sneak up the spiral staircase and I would watch behind it, and I think I got a lot of my cues and Instructions on living from watching Magnum PI. So really, you know I, I should have joined the Tom Selleck fan club. You know, you definitely got your fast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, had is in this mess somewhere. Yeah, oh yeah, I think it's wine shirts. I Love TC. You know he was always sort of setting up, been setting everything up for him.
Speaker 2:You know, but I did that for years and you know I was such a sneaky bastard. My mom never figured it out. It wasn't until later, in my 20s or 30s. I said do you know that I've probably logged hundreds of hours of Magnum PI by watching over your shoulder when I was, you know, six to ten years old? She's like I had no idea. I had no idea. That's crazy, wow, and so that's wild.
Speaker 1:Well, what part of the country did you grew up in? San Francisco, California, Okay so yeah, I know sports was a big part of your life. What, what age did that become something that you, you started to kind of invest in?
Speaker 2:That was. I mean. So for somebody who feels really alone, really outside, you know, really uncomfortable Making friends, maintaining friends. You know that was from an early age. I was a late bloomer too, so I was mercilessly bullied and teased when I was, when I was really young. I remember getting locked in a, in a locker, locked in a dumpster. Is this before you hit?
Speaker 1:your first bird, you mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then in high school, you know, I went like six inches, six inches, six inches, you know, in three or four years and I went from being this really chubby, rolly-poly guy to being, you know, over six feet and I found football Basketball became a lot easier when you're tall. Yeah, chico, you know I always liked playing baseball and you know I was fairly Coordinated, so I ran track in high school too, but football was really the sort of sport for me. Problem was I was at the wrong position. I was a quarterback in high school, just didn't quite have the mentality or the mobility to really make it. In college they moved me to tight end, which was a little better a Position for me, but I was surrounded by guys who were really really good. The guy a year above me Was a third round pick. The guy a year below me was a second round pick in the NFL draft. So I was really relegated to special teams, you know, as a practice player, and you know it's interesting, though we're thinking about recovery. You know I Didn't drink or do anything in high school, never, never, maybe once or twice I'd have a beer, but in college, you know, as a way to sort of get over this loss of identity and no longer a football player and a hero and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:That's really where the drugs and the alcohol started to take hold, right, and that's where they really sort of opened my eyes, right. I mean, I had such amazing experiences Back when I was 19, 20 years old, on alcohol and then, you know, 21 years old, on cocaine. You know those things, ecstasy, right, I mean they were like. They were like the magic formulas that An alchemist had brewed just for me to deal with my specific set of problems, my social anxieties, my lack of confidence, my feelings of being a perpetual failure man.
Speaker 2:These were customized solutions just for me, and it's no wonder now, you know, 46 years old and in the position I'm in, right, I'm talking to you from my halfway house. I'm in a halfway house in Seattle. My wife and kids are across town. I get to see him, but we'll talk more about that. But this is not how life was supposed to end up. Yeah, right, and and I think that's what I was, that's what I was grappling with when we were talking at that sink in boxfield Was how the fuck did I get to Denver Living in the PHP house with 15 other guys and I used to be a football star right, right, here yeah on the fast track for success.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, well, and I think a lot of guys Wrestle with that man, like I know I did, and a lot of guys, especially the guys that are valiant, have been successful, yeah, externally in some way, or they've been on stages or they've been in you know executive boardrooms or they've been on you know Football fields, wherever, and they look up and they're in their 30s and 40s, 50s, whatever, and realize, man, I don't know who I am anymore. Or maybe I never knew who I was. I was just I bought into this. You know that, the affirmations and external accolades and all that other thing, and You're absolutely right, you get to that point where it's like man, I think probably every guy that's come to valiant has had that moment at the sink saying how the hell did I end up here?
Speaker 1:And I'm not like these other guys. I don't know what's going. It's like, you know, I say all the time by the end I'm like, oh, yeah, I am. I'm just like these other. I mean, we're all looking for ways to escape. We might be different, but we've got a lot more in common than we have. You know our differences, but at first I was like I Don't belong here. You know all that stuff man wrestling with. I'm curious. So what was? What was the time? So you said in college is kind of when it started going off the rails for you a little bit. But what, what?
Speaker 2:when was the moment where you're like man, I got, I have a problem like this is this is not manageable you know I Think there were a lot of indications of those moments, you know, when you're on a on a two or three day run with drugs and alcohol and you haven't slept and and you're afraid every time the phone rings and If you're setting some booby traps For the federal is who might come bursting through your door at any moment. You know these moments, these, these messages are coming through, probably pretty loud and clear, right, and I'm sure I had a lot of those like what am I doing? You know I just missed another day of work and what am I gonna tell my boss? And you know why won't my mom stop calling me? Does she know something? You know? And how do I get out of Going on this date or this trip? Because I'm in no condition to do anything or drive or whatever. You know, and that was happening, you know, you could just say my 20s were fraught with those kinds of experiences. You know living on your own and and making a little bit of money, right, and you know an existing in a culture with friends who all do that sort of thing, just not at the extent that I did. And you know, I think I got a lot of those messages. But I'll tell you from a valiant standpoint, and this, this latest period, right, I've got eight and a half months of sobriety.
Speaker 2:I came to valiant on June 26 23, you know, through an intervention right that was. And I was kicking and screaming and gaslighting and trying to tell people that it wasn't that bad. But when you're smoking crack in the basement While your family sleeps and your three of your four children are asleep in the room directly above you in the basement and You're staying up all night, tiptoeing around, sneaking around and Watching those fumes loft through your ceiling, their floorboards, the level of negligence and Irresponsibility and shame that was ringing in my ears was, you know, yeah, unbearable, yeah. And yet I, and yet I still couldn't stop. I had a you know, and I was always like I'll stop, this is gonna be the last bag, this is gonna be the last time. And then you'd sleep it off for a couple of days, you wouldn't get fired and you'd be back at it again, you know, making other promises for next week or, you know, tomorrow.
Speaker 2:And so, man, I think that was, you know, when I, when I came to grips with the harm that I could have been causing To the people that I love the most in the world. That was when I got really desperate. I got really desperate to get some help, and those were the memories that I had to rely on when I was having those crises at the P8, the valley of PHP house right, we weren't there, or I was in my room thinking about how I was gonna, you know, steal a car, you know get out of here and drive back heroically to Seattle.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was what, that was what kept me in my seat. And then, on the positive side you mentioned it just a minute ago and I just want to say it's that connecting with other people that was so important, and the relating with other people that was so important, hearing your story in their experience Because that's that's what. That's what conquered this feeling that I am so alone and I am so terminally unique, I'm doomed and I'm doomed to death, and that will be the best for everybody when that happens.
Speaker 1:And thanks for sharing that part of your story, dude. That's I mean, that's really powerful and I Appreciate the honesty there because I mean I relate, man. I well, you're saying that there's. There's things that I did in my addiction that I look back on now. I'm like how in the world could I ever have done that like that? Just, it seems like a different person different time. You know, it just doesn't seem real, but that's, that's the power of the addiction. You know. It's like. You know, in our right minds we don't do that kind of thing. You know, it's like Were you able to be able to keep it a secret for the most part, or did your wife, friends, did anybody else know that you were having issues with it, or is it pretty much just were you isolated?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was in such a mode of isolation because I think the the word was getting out right.
Speaker 2:It could be that could be the paranoia or the psychosis, but you know, I think people saw me the way that I behaved. You know, in social gatherings, you know, always with the drink in my hand, always sort of wanting to play bartender, sort of pushing drinks on everybody else, you know, drinking myself on the side, constantly, sort of running down to the basement then reappearing with Some level of agitated energy is sort of coursing through my veins. You know, I think that Nobody I don't think anybody had any idea the extent I was using. But they definitely knew something was up, right, right, and that I probably needed help. But there again, you know big guy who wants to be the one who goes up to the six, six guy and Tells him he's out of line, right, and he needs to clean up his act, right. You know, it's way easier, just mind your own business. And I certainly wasn't giving anybody an opening to come in there and tell me that right, I would have. I would have postured very aggressively, probably, probably, to prevent that Narrative from going anywhere.
Speaker 1:So there was an ease mentioned earlier. There's an intervention. Are you? Can you talk about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean. So you know, my wife got she, she, she found all the text messages from my drug dealer. You know, I think she was just. You know, I was always sick during the day, I was always laying in bed, I was always so tired, and then at night I would always be staying up so late and sort of tiptoeing around. And then there was this change in behavior, obviously from drinking and using, and so one night, I believe what she did is she went and she and these fat x packages to show up at the house. That acts, they were all the same kind of same person on the return Address and she, being a junior sluice and always very clever, looked up that name on the fed x packages in my text messages and, sure enough, there was a three year rolling history of transactions with this guy.
Speaker 1:And then I think it came, it started to come clear was that the first that she knew for sure that there was a head nod?
Speaker 2:Well, she knew that I'd I'd gone to treatment fifteen years before I went to valiant, so I had a fifteen year real, you know, and I'd been up and I went to treatment. You know, I was in florida for about a year, a year plus total, including sober living. And so I think you know, and I and she knew that I had this, you know, what I was trying to portray was this guy who's got sort of this joie of the right Bonn v vaude kind of guy, just likes to have a good time and make good times for all those around him. That was the image that I was trying to project on other people and she obviously had the closest look. And so, you know, I think it was very sudden, it was very abrupt towards you puts and it was, I think, incredibly overwhelming for her.
Speaker 2:Because how do you go from here right and and the sense that she been being lied to, she been gas lit. You know, I mean my, my, my best comeback was when you say you're always so tired you won't get out of bed, which I say how dare you criticize the sick and suffering? I have horrible nasal infection and an upper respiratory issue here. How could you possibly want to have?
Speaker 2:your eyes and berate the second suffering. Have you no heart? That kind of person you want to be remembered as.
Speaker 1:No, I know I'm laughing because I feel I mean we, I feel that deeply, I mean the, you know I just I resonate with that did the same type of stuff, you know I know and.
Speaker 2:And thank god you told me that, because you know, in my first week at php, when I'm just starting to get to know guys, I still felt like I was the only one in the on the block. Yeah, pull this kind of shit and been this evil and self centered and manipulative, and that's that was that's the beautiful thing about you drew and the whole program because you're willing to put yourself out there in the name of somebody else getting better. Yeah, no others with no other sort of hope for compensation or Renumeration.
Speaker 1:I think that's such a magical part of this whole process well, I think it's the honesty in the connection I mean it is Thank you for saying that, but I do feel like it's part of my sobriety is Connecting with other guys and staying honest and someone did that for me and it's like you know you're doing it for other guys is this is part of this community that we never wanted to be a part of the honest. But we're in it now and we're finding such such beauty in it. We're finding true friendships and true honesty and and people. That's why you and I I felt like we connected so quickly because man, here's two dudes that are just laying their soul out with one another the first time they ever met me.
Speaker 1:We buy passive small talk. I mean, I didn't know what you did. For a little I mean I still don't know. There's just things I know, I know you know about me to there's deeper levels of connection. They go past the surface of all the other things we used to claim as our identity and it's a beautiful part of us. Staying sober is the connection you know, it's the gift of it.
Speaker 2:It really it really is and how that that correlation was made still is mind boggling for me, because it's the most powerful part of recovery and you know, I think it's the it's a, it's a profound part of twelve step recovery to but this idea that we all are feeling terminally alone and unique and Down trodden, and the solution to that is sharing and supporting one another yeah man, it is so powerful it is.
Speaker 1:It is. So tell me a little bit through your first you, just your valiant experience. So you get there the first week or so, probably longer. I mean it is hard right, especially guys like us that are a long ways from home. We got young kids. We're missing them like crazy in the shame is just pilot on top, but like that was probably one of the hardest things for me with my children and I just would weep just thinking about the kids and you know the effect and mind. We're older, little bit older than yours, but still, just that's even now talking about it. I still have feelings that come up about it. But talk us through just your, your valiant experience. What was that like?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, man, I mean it really does start with that intervention, right, you know, and I I'm still have sort of I had a fourth step resentment. My interventionist and I still am a bit prickly about all that, because you know their whole goal is just get you into treatment. Come heller high water, and I felt really real rooted, right, they said you go on this plane tonight. You know you got two hours to get to the airport. Your mother is gonna come with you, my poor, you know slate 70s mother, you know weep, and she had no idea either the extent of this you know. So I get to valiant. You know you can first go to the detox only for a couple of days, because you know I didn't.
Speaker 2:What I wanted to do with the intervention was I wanted to go have one last big her off, right, yeah, okay, I'll go. You know, part of me after I thought it and they and I knew they were gonna win because it was gonna be a divorce. You get on this plan or it's gonna be a divorce. At that point what I really wanted one was one last her off. That wasn't gonna happen. Now, of course, I'm so grateful that that didn't happen, but it definitely, you know, this sense that my liberty and my freedom and my autonomy has been totally removed, taken away under threat of divorce. Right, it was a real threat, was really gonna happen. That's a hard way to start to start, right, I think I put valiant in a disadvantaged position because what you had was this big, angry, you know hungover person sort of arriving at their detox and luckily, you know, this is a really experienced sort of organization, so they knew just how to handle me.
Speaker 2:These people, the detox, they're really, I think, unsung heroes. Yeah, if you think about what would be one of the toughest jobs, you know you get micro to do tough jobs. How about being a detox counselor? Yeah, dirty job where you get at most, yeah, dirty jobs. Seven, seven days with these people. They can't even form a complete sentence when they arrive, right, they're pissed off. They're detoxing their, their home. You know, they are literally shaking From substances and emotions and these people help guide us right. And they are the ones who I ended up being just really marveling at, because you know they have this kindness, this gentleness, yet this firmness right where hey, we're gonna, we're gonna, we want the express for you, we're gonna push you along just just the right amount To get you to keep moving forward, because moving forward is the key to all of this, especially early.
Speaker 2:So, once I was detoxed, I went to the php house, right, you're. You're in here with, with, I can't remember what it was like. Twelve or thirteen other men, right and you know most of them are are a little bit, you know. They're about, about your age, right, which I think is really good because your fridge, you're gonna show up at some place Twenty year olds, right, going to pharmacology. Gladiator, count of me.
Speaker 2:But it's not that right, it's and it was generally, you know, guys who had some experience, a lot of guys who had kids, who had families, guys who were Holding together a marriage, guys who've been through a divorce, but anyway, it didn't matter first, right, because I was just fricking, pissed off and fired up and I didn't want to connect with anybody. I really sort of leverage the self righteousness of I've been separated from my children and I must return back to them, you know, to protect them from my evil wife who's unfairly accused me of being a drug addict. You know, I really went with that team for a while, but, but, but, but it doesn't discount what you said, this level of shame level of shame over my own behavior, my own conduct. Where has it gotten me? And look at these innocent victims, right, little kids.
Speaker 2:One of them is not even one years old yet. You know, I'm gonna miss her first birthday. How did I let it come to this right? And the easiest way to to sort of grapple with those kind of deep existential dilemmas is to blame other people, right, and to lash out, and I really got in touch with that. I'm really embarrassed about some of the things that I said and some of the things that I did, even now right, this is eight or nine months later, but I was desperate, you know, I was. I was probably my brain was desperate for some more of the substances that it becomes so accustomed to, you know, and my soul was desperate for some sort of redemption, and redemption right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So you know, I put I think I put Valium through the ringer, you know, and thank God I'm talking to another guy who maybe did too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's why they knew we were going to connect, because they're like Drew you you. Shane reminds us of you and you need to go talk to him.
Speaker 2:That's right. I wrote and said. I said nobody reminds me of me.
Speaker 1:Well, I think there's just these, these control issues. You know, I think that I didn't realize how much of a control freak I was, I mean, especially like when I took my phone away, like, and wouldn't give it back. Oh yeah, because I went on digital like I lost my damn mind and I was just like, and then once I got it back, I was like, oh, I don't really want it, but it just was the fact that I couldn't control it, man, and I just did not know how much of an anxiety-ridden control freak I was. And you have to go, and the value is so great at this because you have to kind of work that out while you're there and they don't, you know, they don't let you escape to unhealthy things.
Speaker 1:And you just got to be pissed and mad. And you know, and they help you process it and pour you know, melissa or Jill or whoever it is, that ends up getting the brunt of our, you know, added rain that day, you know, and they just, you know, love us through it. And was there a moment for you, shane, where you felt the shift of like surrender start to happening, where it started to become not easier, but you're like, okay, I'm seeing some progress here? Did you have that there, or was it pretty gradual?
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. You know, yeah, I think it was gradual, but it was in fits and starts and a lot of time it was. It was, you know, one step forward, two steps back, but it was. But it was totally profound. Right, and especially, think you're coming from this concept of I was really isolated. Right, I was.
Speaker 2:I was willing to give up control of everything in my life in order to maintain control of being able to use drinking use right. And so what that translated to me is oh, I have no interest in control. I'm not somebody who wants to control other people, because what I really wanted people to do was I wanted them to go away and leave me to do what I wanted to do and then not judge me for it, right? So I thought that I was making some sort of clever little contract where you know, hey, you do you, I'll do me, I'm not going to try to control you if you won't try to control me and tell me that what I'm doing is wrong. Got you, and so you're right.
Speaker 2:That really came to fruition and came to light when, when they take away the phone, when you are living under these rules in a communal atmosphere with other men, when you're sitting in these groups that can really sort of tug at the heartstrings and bring these self realizations to light.
Speaker 2:Right, and these? And when you start to understand your addiction life cycle, right, that where it starts with you know, it starts with, you know, some feelings of, of, of, of, of shame or feelings of guilt, and that progresses into a compulsion or a thought of using you know, which evolves into scoring drugs, which evolves into using them, which then starts the cycle of shame all over again. Right, you know, these were tough, tough realizations, but they really were progress for me. Right, and you know, but you can't see. The problem is is you can't really see it in the moment. Sure, right, and I think that is is on the day to day. It didn't feel like progress, it felt like I got to get out of here. Right, I know all this. Like no, no shit, yeah, I feel bad and I want to use drugs, like, okay, that's, captain, obvious, thank you, let me go home to my kids.
Speaker 1:Right, right.
Speaker 2:Right, um, but I you know. But when you, when you, when you couple that with the connections that you're making with other guys who are going through this at the same time, without distraction, um, it's, it begins to accumulate and you can only see it.
Speaker 1:Like you said in hindsight, yeah, so how long did you end up? Were you there? 90 days. How long did you end up staying there?
Speaker 2:No, I was over a hundred Were you, okay, I was just like you.
Speaker 2:They took away my phone and then, when they gave it back, I didn't want it anymore and then when my my time came up to leave, I was a little bit afraid to leave. So, yeah, I really evolved in a lot of ways over those hundred days. Um, but you know you, you got a couple in. I think, with my case is my wife right and and that's a big part of my valiant experience is trying to pull the pieces back together. I mean, let's just say, put the pieces back on the board with my wife and I's relationship. Because, you know, I was about, let's say, 60, 60 days in and Lindsay came out for two days for some group therapy sessions and that was, you know, it was tough and it was going okay.
Speaker 2:But the real shocker came, you know, about two thirds of the way through, where she said I want a one year separation. I'm, you know, I'm not married to this man. I remember her saying, and you know, I want him, he's not coming back home when he gets back, and I remember that was just a gut punch and um, so you know, so it gave us something really to work on for the last, say, 40 days, because now we had to contend with this new reality that you know it wasn't just going to be do your time and then go back to life, which is what I was under the impression I never thought I'd stay there 30 days. I was like there's no way Lindsay is going to be able to manage four kids and not come begging me to come back home to do my half ass fathering job that I was doing before.
Speaker 1:So she really held that then. I mean, she was the one that kind of stood her ground and yeah Well, I mean, look where I am, man.
Speaker 2:I mean, this is my, this is my, my domicile, my little one room with a bed. I've been here since October.
Speaker 2:Um, is that so part of the one year separation, yeah, I mean and, and I talked to her about, you know, I'm still, I still can't believe it's going to be a year, uh, you know, which would mean, like you're talking about until you know, june, july, august or something.
Speaker 2:But she really believes in it and you know, and to her credit, she's going to Allen on and she's got a sponsor and she's working steps and she's speaking, and you know, and, and yeah, and so you know it's a part of me, you know that that or that manipulative part of me that still is always there. You know it's just like just buy more time, buy more time. You know you'll be able to convince her, you'll be able to sway her, um, but then there's another part of me, and maybe it's this sort of higher self or the spiritual self, that that's starting to just have faith that things are going to, that things are going to work out the way that they're supposed to be and we are all going to be able to find peace, even without my manipulative outcome, you know, ensuring efforts which have never really worked out for me to begin with.
Speaker 1:Right, right, it's a it doesn't work and and I think the people that in our lives, like if you would call them, are the betrayed partners or whatever I mean they're just waiting for us to show up on us. I mean they're, they're waiting to see are we going to do what we say we're going to do? I mean, part of it is, you know, my wife had said some similar kind of um, he had Denine. He doesn't call him ultimatums, he calls it loving leverage and um, there's, there's a couple of those that Jamie had for me too, but she just wanted to make sure and feel safe again that I was going to show up honest, I was going to hold to her boundaries and her standards. And the crazy thing is, like you said, when we drop when I dropped my manipulative ways, and I just show up honest and I respect those boundaries, it actually gets the result.
Speaker 1:I've always, I always wanted back. When I was being manipulative, it's like my brain was messed up. I was doing the very thing that was causing it. You know the disconnection, and now all she really wanted was for me to be honest and just do what I said I was going to do and be transparent and open, and she didn't expect me to be perfect, but you know, and so I love that you're, you're walking that out. Still, I think guys need to hear that it's not go to 30, 90 days and then come home and it's all back to you know, quote, unquote, normal. That's the last thing you want. You guys are rebuilding such a beautiful foundation for whatever the future holds and you're respecting it and, just you know, staying true to your program, and that's. That's a beautiful thing. Man, how? How's your relationship with the kids?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we'll be just, you're so right, you, just before I talk about kids, you know, and what that is is it's it's the most true exercise of faith that one can do. And it is so hard and it is so scary. You know, I want to agree with you, but there is a part of my brain that is screaming when you say that. Don't listen to him, don't buy into it. It's not going to just be okay. It's what idiots will do. Is they just expect things to work out? Real men take action, real men are decisive. Real men, you know, create the create, shape the world they want to live in. Blah, blah, blah. And so you know, I think it really is a is a central part of my recovery, now that I'm eight months in, is this concept of how do I express my faith that things are going to work out, how do I really demonstrate that? How do I live in that? Because if I'm going to get finished the 12 steps and become a sponsor, I'm going to have to truly believe that, because it's a central part of this paradigm. But, man, is it hard? Is it really hard?
Speaker 2:My kids, my kids, you know, and I think that's that's so great you asked about the kids, because the kids are sort of this ultimate expression of how things work out. Kids live in the moment, right? Kids don't have a whole lot of thoughts about the past or the future, you know. They live in sort of routines and I really feel like I am now the father that I was meant to be, that I should have been eight years ago.
Speaker 2:I held this to eight, almost nine, and that was a lot of time, and she's now the most sensitive of the four girls to sort of the separation and me living in a halfway house and her sober living and mommy being, you know, only there at home and put some of the bed, and certainly she's the only one there when they wake up in the morning. But these kids are resilient, they are focused on the present moment and me now showing up as this sort of new person and this refined sort of father. They totally accept it, whereas with friends and my spouse it's going to, like you said, it's going to take time for them to start to see the change and believe the change right and know and rely on the change, whereas the kids are, you know, I see them every single day and that's cool.
Speaker 1:I was going to ask you how often you get to see them every day.
Speaker 2:Every day I'm over there. I'll go there right after our interview is done and we play, we go to the park. I'm actually taking three of the girls to go see my parents tomorrow. You know I couldn't get Lindsay and the baby to come, but me and three girls are going to go out to Hawaii tomorrow for four days. No, way. And just have a great time seeing my parents and my sister, and it's I'm super excited.
Speaker 1:Well, I'll go in Lindsay's, in Lindsay's spot.
Speaker 2:Yes, you handsome devil, you get on. Get on board, meet me and Kona.
Speaker 1:I don't know that we want to challenge our sobriety that hard with you, and I go to Hawaii.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think we're better friends of resume than in person.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2:But don't worry, you'll have. You'll have the. You'll have the effort of taking keeping three kids, who aren't necessarily water safe, alive. Yeah, there isn't a better deterrent from drinking that. My tie, I don't know what it is. That's the ones you know do not want to sleep on this job.
Speaker 1:Let me kind of give you the final word here. Man Like it, and thank you for sharing your story. I mean, it's I'm just so proud as your buddy of what you're doing and how you're showing up every day and just I remember I got the picture when you got home of you hugging your girls and man, I cried, I was like that's my, that's my guy, he's out there Thanks to, he's doing his thing and it's every day. We're not, you know, we wake up every day. We continue to work our program every day and you're doing it. And so you know it's awesome to hear your story. But if you were to encourage anyone listening to this that you know as a family member, a loved one, a spouse, or maybe even they're listening to this and they're considering, hey, maybe I need help, what kind of not advice, but what kind of feedback would you give? What kind of encouragement would you give to someone listening?
Speaker 2:Let's see, you're not alone. You're not alone, even though it feels like you're totally alone. You're not alone and you're also not thinking clearly and you need help. This is not something. These substances even when you take out the shame drivers and the social drivers and the anxiety drivers and the mental health drivers these substances are so compelling on their own that they make it almost inevitable that you're going to use it again, and beating it on your own is so, so tough. Get the help that you need. Get the help that your family wants you to have and become the person that you are intended to be.
Speaker 2:You don't have to live in that sort of prison, because it is an absolute prison, as much as county jail is, as much as a federal penitentiary is. It is a prison of the mind, the bondage of self. There is a way out of it, but you first have to get some distance from it. You've got to get the distance and it has to be an artificial construct like a treatment center. What valiant was for me is you've got to be in a community where you are held accountable, where you are going to have some artificial barriers right Social barriers, rural barriers, financial barriers to going out and using the first moment, you either see an opportunity, or you feel really good about yourself, or you feel really bad about yourself. You need that construct around you and then just let the connection take hold. Right, yeah, so true, I think. Yeah, what would you say to that Tru?
Speaker 1:No, I 100% agree with you, man. I think it's you've got to find environments that you can show up honest in, like really honest, like really get down. It's like, and it's the connection with other people in man. I grew up in churches and I grew up in a lot of different places, but it wasn't until I got the valiant that I found myself in a group of guys from all different backgrounds finally willing to just drop the bullshit at the door and to be honest, and so to me, I crave that. I mean that's why I enjoy our friendship, that's why I enjoy, you know, 12 step rooms.
Speaker 1:I just anymore, I just want to be with people who are just being honest and and talking about the places they struggle and not trying to project some kind of false image or false identity. It's like I, my natural instincts are to to default back to those modes, you know, the modes of performance, the modes of manipulation, all those things yeah, it's not like I'm, those things are still part of me, man, and that's part of what valiant I heard it in your language valiant teaches us is that we have different parts of self, and it's not about getting rid of the anxiety or getting rid of the addiction. It's about being honest with it and addressing it and be like, yeah, there's a part of me that really wants to use today. There's a part of me that feels a lot of shame. There's also a part of me that wants to show up for my kids in a way that never so. It's like if I don't have someone like Shane in my life that I can be honest with and I can text or call when I need to, and just be like man, I'm struggling today.
Speaker 1:This is what I want to do, and to have someone reflect that back, the attunement. You know, I just had my sponsor called me before we got jumped on and they're just like, hey, I woke up today and and you know who's sharing some of his story and it's like the connection piece. Man, the opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it's connection. Right, we learned that. So, shane, thank you, man. This has been an awesome conversation. I love you, buddy, I'm so proud of you and thank you for sharing your story with us today.
Speaker 2:Drew. I love you too, man, and I will be better at staying in touch, because this is this is really gratifying, and being able to tell my story and share it with you again brings me back to those pivotal conversations at the sink in Foxfield that have been so instrumental in my life. So thank you for being such a great part of it and helping, leading me to water. Man, you're one of those shepherds for me. Thanks to you, you got me to the watering hole and and gave me a chance to drink.
Speaker 1:Well, we appreciate you listening to this episode of the Valiant Living podcast and our hope is that it helped you feel educated, encouraged and even empowered on your journey towards peace and freedom. If we can serve you or your loved one in any way, we'd love to have a conversation with you. You can call 720-756-7941 or email admissions at valiantlivingcom. At Valiant Living, we treat the whole person so you not only survive, but you thrive in the life you deserve. And finally, if this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean a lot to us if you'd subscribe and even share it with your friends and family. You can also follow along with us on Instagram and Facebook by simply searching Valiant Living. Thanks again for listening and supporting the Valiant Living podcast. We'll see you next week.