The raw, unfiltered bonds of family take center stage as my daughter Emory Powell and I tear down the walls of silence surrounding addiction. Together, we navigate the turbulent emotions that come with a parent's struggle with addiction. Emory, with a courage that humbles me, shares the world she knew—a reality marked by my battles and her own resilience. She speaks to the heart of what many children in her shoes feel but are seldom heard, offering a beacon of hope to those still trapped in the shadows of familial addiction.
Confronting the chaos that addiction wreaks on a family, this episode is a deep, emotional journey through the eyes of both the sufferer and the ones who love them most. I lay bare the personal narratives crafted in search of stability, the critical moments of tough love that pushed me towards acceptance and healing, and the night of prayer that turned the tides. This chapter of our lives is a testament to the power of family intervention and the faith that can either bind or break us as we claw our way back to trust and understanding.
In an honest exploration of the long road to mending relationships, Emory and I examine the delicate dance of rebuilding trust, the catharsis of writing heartfelt letters, and the therapeutic support that is so crucial in these times. We recognize the non-linear path of healing, the importance of empathy and personal accountability, and the guiding hand of therapy in a child's journey through a parent's absence. This episode, steeped in raw emotion and hard-earned wisdom, is a message of hope and dedication to anyone working to reconnect the familial ties strained by addiction's relentless grip.
The raw, unfiltered bonds of family take center stage as my daughter Emory Powell and I tear down the walls of silence surrounding addiction. Together, we navigate the turbulent emotions that come with a parent's struggle with addiction. Emory, with a courage that humbles me, shares the world she knew—a reality marked by my battles and her own resilience. She speaks to the heart of what many children in her shoes feel but are seldom heard, offering a beacon of hope to those still trapped in the shadows of familial addiction.
Confronting the chaos that addiction wreaks on a family, this episode is a deep, emotional journey through the eyes of both the sufferer and the ones who love them most. I lay bare the personal narratives crafted in search of stability, the critical moments of tough love that pushed me towards acceptance and healing, and the night of prayer that turned the tides. This chapter of our lives is a testament to the power of family intervention and the faith that can either bind or break us as we claw our way back to trust and understanding.
In an honest exploration of the long road to mending relationships, Emory and I examine the delicate dance of rebuilding trust, the catharsis of writing heartfelt letters, and the therapeutic support that is so crucial in these times. We recognize the non-linear path of healing, the importance of empathy and personal accountability, and the guiding hand of therapy in a child's journey through a parent's absence. This episode, steeped in raw emotion and hard-earned wisdom, is a message of hope and dedication to anyone working to reconnect the familial ties strained by addiction's relentless grip.
Well, hey, everyone. Welcome to the Valiant Living podcast, where we educate, encourage and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom. I'm your host, drew Powell, and I'm a grateful alumni of the Valiant Living program. Valiant Living offers hope and transformational change to men and their families struggling with addiction and mental health challenges. So on this podcast you'll hear from the Valiant Team, as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love is struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at 720-756-7941 or you can email admissions at valiantlivingcom. We'd love to have a conversation with you, but for now let's dive into today's episode, emory Ruth Powell, on the Valiant Living podcast.
Speaker 2:Dream come true.
Speaker 1:I just told you, before we started rolling, that I'm nervous about this interview.
Speaker 2:I told you you should be. Yeah, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, we haven't really, you and I haven't sat down and had a conversation like this. We've done some therapy and we talk, we've had conversations, but I've never interviewed you about your.
Speaker 2:I've never been interviewed about it before. What's?
Speaker 1:it like? What was it like to be? Yeah, on the other side of me as a parent. So for those listening or watching, this is my second daughter, emory Powell, in whom I'm well pleased. She is now an almost an adult.
Speaker 2:Thursday, two days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, from the time of this recording in two days, you which is part of the reason I want to have you on is because, as you experience this as a teenager, what our family walked through but you're also coming into adulthood and you also have always had a maturity about you. So I felt safe enough to have this conversation and I think we both wanted for people and families to hear that are going through treatment or going through a hard time, to hear just a real time story of a family who's been processing trauma and all that stuff. So I'm really grateful that you would be willing to sit down and have a conversation.
Speaker 2:I'm excited.
Speaker 1:And, like I said, we didn't talk about this at the time, so you can. I expect you to be fully honest in all this, and so, yeah, I'm nervous, I have a lot of feelings about having this conversation. So I just want to name that at the beginning, mostly because when we did and we might talk about this, but when we did impact letters, you were the one that like the mean one.
Speaker 1:No, not the mean one, I think the one that really was honest and, like you, kind of let me have it. And I remember even Jill, our family therapist, our valiant kind of like warning she was like Emery really spoke her truth, yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:I was so grateful that you did, and it was. I carried those letters with me. It was impactful for me, for sure, to hear that. So, anyways, let's dive in. What do you say? Let's do it. How are you feeling about this?
Speaker 2:I'm feeling good. I think that from the beginning kind of, since I had like a new perspective on what we went through, like being able to say I was on the other side since having that emotion, I've always said I want to share if it could help someone, Because I remember feeling so alone and feeling like I don't know how this is going to turn out, and either way I don't like it.
Speaker 1:Like truly, I was like I don't want any part of it. Did you feel like you just didn't really have anybody to talk to? That?
Speaker 2:No, Especially another teenage person. That could be like an example victory story of like we went through this and we're okay now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I appreciate your bravery and being able to talk, and I think that's our goal is to that this helps people and we're not here to sugarcoat, we're not here to talk about like no. I don't want to reframe to where it's just all on the positive up and up.
Speaker 1:We've been in the trenches, but there is hope and there is. It takes daily work, yeah Right. So all right, let's jump in. I've got some questions. I don't know if we'll stick to these questions or not, but I'm curious when. What was your experience in our home, growing up from the standpoint of being a child raised with someone who was probably always active in addiction but not able to name it and definitely having mental health issues? What was your childhood and experience like?
Speaker 2:I think it shifted a lot, just like when I was growing up, I think when I was little you not being able to name it, I definitely couldn't Like I don't know. It kind of felt like that was my normal.
Speaker 1:Like I was, just like.
Speaker 2:That's how everyone's parents are Like what do you mean? And so when I think about being a little girl, I don't really. I mean, I remember certain things, like I don't know random memories, but I don't fully know what I thought. Like I don't think I thought anything, I was just kind of like that was my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how did you notice me like from young age? How did you notice me like showing up in the home? What was your experience of me like.
Speaker 2:I think. Well, so you worked at a church and it was very much like you would go to work and then come home and nap. I remember that. I remember you slept a lot when.
Speaker 1:I was little.
Speaker 2:But when you were around I never felt unloved or like unwanted or anything. I always was like I feel like I praised the ground. You walked on, a little bit Like everyone would call me your little, like church mouse, because I would just follow you around and I was like kind of your shadow. So there was never a point in my life up until when we started to walk through what we went through, where I questioned like if you wanted to be there for me. So I never was like, oh, he's not showing up for me. He was like, oh, dad needs to sleep, or dad needs to do this, or he has a meeting to go to or he has to be at the church for something. But I was always like that's just his job and, yeah, he would be tired from that, like I don't know.
Speaker 1:Right, so nothing ever really registered. Was there a moment where you like, as you got older, when was the moment? Or was there a moment where you were like, hey, something's not quite right, like he's not well?
Speaker 2:I think when we moved to Nashville and you started talking more about what you went through, because when you were going through depression I didn't know, like I knew there was something wrong, because I remember I've always been the kid that like I want to know everything that's going on. So I remember there would be times, especially when you and mom were talking about moving to Nashville, where I would like be outside the door with like my ear to it, because I would just like we get so anxious just not knowing what's going on. And then we moved to Nashville and you started talking to the church about, like going through depression and all that kind of stuff, and that's when I was like, oh, that's what it was.
Speaker 1:Like that's why he was so hindsight.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I started preaching and teaching about it Right. Like my experience. And then you were like wow, I didn't realize.
Speaker 2:that was kind of like me hearing it for the first time too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I remember like hearing it with thousands of other people from the stage. Cool, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And also that was I felt like when I became old enough to comprehend it. I don't know if I would have known when I was younger, if I would have been able to be like oh, I think I probably wouldn't, have understood anyway.
Speaker 2:But I could look back and see where I saw that in your life. Not that in the time I noticed it, but then when you would say, oh, that's why I would come home and be tired, I was like, oh, you know, like it, just like would put you and two together for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that makes sense. Well, I think I instilled to this day, more so than before, but I think I just couldn't name it either.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because I think it wasn't until I went to valiant that I was even able to name anxiety.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I talked about depression a lot, but I would always say I can't relate to anxiety. I just didn't know what, how to name what was going on in my body and in my head. Like I just I always called it leadership or I'm future focused or I'm a visionary or whatever, and that's also true. But what's true too is that I just had trouble being present, and my anxiety kept me from being present the moment it wasn't until I went to valiant that I started learning that that's what that was and be able to address it.
Speaker 1:So it makes sense that if I can't name it, how in the world are my kids going?
Speaker 2:to but.
Speaker 1:I will say I take a little bit of. I find a little bit of hope in the fact that you were shielded from it. Yeah, Some yeah. I think I like where our families at now, where we're a little bit more open about talking through some of these challenges. So it's not so hidden?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, so let's, let's fast forward to the summer of 2022.
Speaker 2:You just throw up in your mouth a little bit.
Speaker 1:Did you? When did you notice? Or did you notice that something was off or wrong? Or talking to talk to us about that season?
Speaker 2:I noticed probably before anyone else.
Speaker 1:I had to be.
Speaker 2:I brought it to mom's attention.
Speaker 1:That was me.
Speaker 2:I was yeah, you and AJ were on the mission trip. I was in the kitchen. I said, mom, I don't feel good about this and I told her. I told her what I thought and I was right, and I think that's always kind of been part of my nature is I just have a really good.
Speaker 1:gut Like I, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I think, because I live a lot of my life unfortunately worried about things. I've just paid attention and I just know, I know and you and I are wired similarly.
Speaker 1:That yeah we're very similar in our and how we're wired. Yeah, we go is connected on that level, so doesn't surprise me that you would be the first to pick up on something's off, something's wrong.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how did that?
Speaker 1:I mean, how did that make you feel?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, worst, worst emotion I've ever felt my life. It wasn't worse than when I found out everything, but it was up there because I didn't know if I was right or not, but I knew it. You know, like I, I was like this is. I Know that this is going on, but I also did because I didn't have a hundred percent Confirmation. I wasn't gonna tell mom exactly everything that I was thinking, because I wanted to be wrong.
Speaker 2:I Didn't want anyone to feel the way I was feeling right so I kind of just it felt like I was just suffering in silence, like I just had to like, live with it Mm-hmm, and I tried to find comfort in the unknown. But I just can't like that's not how I I process things. I'm not, I'm not okay when I just don't know right, I'd rather know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so what was that season like for you? So I'm home, but I'm kind of in and out and I'm at this point in my life I'm being very deceitful, not showing up, honest at all. What is that? What was that experience like for you as a as a kid, having to watch your parents go through something like this?
Speaker 2:I Can't even lie. Miserable, miserable, because I knew that you couldn't see me like you were. You could only see yourself. I knew that, because what?
Speaker 1:do you mean by that?
Speaker 2:Like there was no, nothing you were doing was for my benefit or my good or Because you wanted what was best for me. It was what you wanted for yourself and you know that and I knew that, and so I think part of me tried to have grace for you, but I know that you know that I did not like.
Speaker 2:I. I tried to like be the good person and be like oh, I don't know, but I. That was when I was in resentment. I just couldn't. And I would grasp for any sense of security, any, because mom always told me I would read between lines that weren't even there, so like the situation was awful and I would make it worse because I Just wanted some sense of the gap for the unknown?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, like why on earth could this be happening? So I would just Give myself a story to believe, because I didn't have anything. And then, when you would come around, it was almost like it's just. Everything was so. It was like I was on a seesaw, but each side was awful, like it was like you were gone and it was awful and my life was completely turned around and I didn't know right and wrong, and up and down and left and right. Or you came around and then mom would leave, or Me I. You would do something that I was like what are you doing?
Speaker 1:like.
Speaker 2:Because I knew. I knew the whole time. I had in my mind this is what's going on, but I didn't want to believe it. So everything you did I would like psychoanalyze. And I was right a lot of time that was, that was probably the worst part is because I wasn't gonna tell grace I wasn't gonna tell, I wasn't gonna tell anyone. Once it people found out, then I was like I've been knowing but yeah, it was awful. It was awful because you would go on like the like retreats.
Speaker 2:Yeah like you did on site and like random stuff like that and I was fine, like At least I know where he's at like I know, like that's a sense of security, but I Never had peace, like there was never a time where I had a good day or was like, oh you like, and Truly truly, looking back on it, it's a blur, like I don't even. Like I remember how I felt, but I don't remember the day-to-day. I just was doing anything I could To protect mom and can you get through it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, as you're talking about it, I feel like obviously there's a lot of sadness, but you know, I just it make I feel a lot of loneliness. That comes up to like who? Do I talk to you about this and I mean, I feel that in me, like I feel like I'm not Putting words in your mouth, I'm just saying for me that feels like I have loneliness, that comes up in me when I yeah, when. I hear that yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot to take in. So there was a couple months there where we are really struggling. This is summer of 2022, really, one month specifically in July. Yeah, I remember you struggling with just wanting to know where I was at and I was like just not being honest with that. You know, turn off locations on my phone, just just trying to like you know yeah. More or less disappear, and then you write I would just kind of like parachute in, but it was you when you would come in.
Speaker 2:We knew it wasn't because you wanted to be there. It was like a guilt like I have to, cuz they're my kids right. But it wasn't like oh, I want to be around you guys right now right Looking back on it.
Speaker 1:I felt so torn in my addiction because there still was that part of me that knew I was Really doing damage to my family and I would feel such Guilt, like you said, and shame and sadness, remorse, and then so then I would parachute back in and try to be like the Fun dad and like, let's, you know, and it just didn't work, and I knew it wasn't where. It just was like and I will say, and I think for the guys listening out there, the families that's out there who are in the midst of their addiction, it's miserable. Like it is Like even as we sit here and talk about it. No, I feelings that rise back up of like that was Miserable.
Speaker 2:Right, you can't even there's not a word that like does it justice.
Speaker 1:No, and you're just. I know, for me, I just felt so trapped and stuck in this downward spiral that I didn't know how to get out of. I didn't know, I Didn't know what to do. I didn't know, you know, and I'm like man, I'm Really damaging my kids and I may not. You know, it's just all those thoughts go through and I'm just like life, just really it's what we say in in recovery circles like your life had become unmanageable, like my life had just become absolutely unmanageable, and and it it was, it was miserable. And then there was and if there's any point where you want to stop and go back and comment I don't want to move through the story too fast, but I am pretty anxious to get no, I think it's, though. I think it's good for me, though, to feel those feelings. Um yeah.
Speaker 1:And I just have so much gratitude that comes up for you and your mother and, like our Family, is amazing and your mom has so much bravery and courage and it's unbelievable. And that's a whole another story that hopefully she'll Tell one day, cuz yeah, she's amazing. So there there comes a point where there's an intervention on my behalf. Yeah, okay, can we jump to that part? Is there anything?
Speaker 2:I'm skipping.
Speaker 1:No, we can jump, okay, yeah is there anything else you want to comment before we jump to that part? I?
Speaker 2:Don't think so.
Speaker 1:Okay, so there's. There's a feel free to go back if you something comes you, but there's an intervention and I Don't know.
Speaker 1:I didn't know in the intervention that they were gonna say that I needed to go away for 90 days. Cuz, at this point I'm still not able to name what I'm experiencing, what I'm going through, anything. Sit down and they say you need to go away, for they told me 60 days, hopefully 90 days, because they still hadn't found the right program yet. Thank you, thank God they found valiant and got me there that we could do a whole nother episode like. I'm sure it would have been helpful for me to go anywhere else, but valiant was the spot yeah so what was that like for you?
Speaker 1:Did you know there was an intervention happening that day?
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, so I knew there is an intervention. I knew the different places that they were thinking about sending you to and I was actually. I don't know if I was just part, I was home. Okay when you came to get your stuff, or, like you, before you went to the intervention, you came home and I left and Drove my car to our neighborhood pool, which you can see. You can see the road from the pool.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh and I remember, kind of going back to what you said, I just felt I wanted you to see me and I knew you couldn't. So the day the intervention happened, we I Went to the pool and in the parking lot and I was crying and just crying, crying, crying. I wanted you to go, so bad.
Speaker 1:You know where the tears like I want them to say yes to getting help.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, yeah, and I'll get to the okay. Sorry, no, no, you're good, but I looked down my window and I had my car facing where you were driving and I wanted you to see me. I wanted you to drive over to me and like see how, how bad I wanted you to go, even though I kind of knew it wouldn't have affected it. I just I wanted you to see me and you drove past and you went to the house and then you drove back past and like didn't even look in my way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean, how could you know? I was there but I came home and that night, me and Grace, my older sister, and my mom were in my room and we just prayed and cried because, honestly, this is a really hard story to tell without talking about my faith, because I would not yeah. I fully just believe I would not be here without it.
Speaker 2:But we talked and prayed and said, if you don't say yes, we basically were out like we started talking about life without you like what, what we would do, what it was gonna look like, all that kind of stuff. And then we prayed for probably like 30 minutes to an hour. That because we didn't think you were gonna go at all. We were like he's gonna say no, he doesn't think he needs it, he's gonna I don't know just keep ruining his life and we're just not gonna be a part of it anymore yeah which is crazy because we grew up in such that typical nuclear family yeah, and came across in my opinion like picture perfect and it was.
Speaker 2:It was heartbreaking and it was awful, it was so bad.
Speaker 1:And then, yeah, we just all went around praying that you would say yes, and then you did well, I know if I can interject too for people that are listening like it was really important that you guys like held your ground right. Like I remember your older sister was about to go off to her freshman year college. That was a big deal, like I didn't want to miss moving her into her dorm and she even at the intervention I said that and you guys even got out in front of that, said hey, if he says he won't go, because in grace actually wrote a text saying, if he says this, tell him.
Speaker 2:I would rather him go get help than yeah be there for that move in we didn't want to be around you at all right, which in my sick brain I wasn't even comprehending. That like yeah, no, we didn't want you right which is which is, honestly, was what I needed.
Speaker 1:I needed, like for you and for mom and for everyone to be like hey, if you don't go get healthy, we're out, we're done.
Speaker 1:We refuse to continue live this way and the way that you guys courageously had enough respect for yourself and enough care for me to kind of call me out on my crap and to say, hey, if you don't go get help, that's it, we're done, we're not going to put up with.
Speaker 1:It was, in a lot of ways, that motivation that I needed of like hey, and I knew you guys were serious, and so I'm so grateful that you guys took that hard line, because I think it was, in a lot of ways, the motivation to go, to say yes, to go to the program, because the end of the day I wanted to see your, our family, healthy and I knew that I was unwell and I was sick. I remember even calling your mother that morning of the intervention saying I feel sick. I didn't even have language. I was like I don't something's wrong with me, I can't something's wrong with me, and I knew that this was my opportunity to get well. And again, I didn't know there was gonna be. I was have to go away and that was a big pill to swallow, but it felt like this is my only choice yeah is either this or continue to live yeah, and run my life into the ground yeah, right.
Speaker 1:So by God's grace and mercy and everything else, we I say yes, I. So what was that like for you, as in that process of that early stages of like, okay, now at least I know where he's at, no, what's going on, but there's still a lot of unknowns very bittersweet in the sense of I.
Speaker 2:It was one of the first times where I can remember tangibly, pointing out a moment in my life where God answered my prayer. I asked for something and he did it next day. So I felt so much peace in that and I knew where you were. I knew I like there was peace that came with it, but at the same time I didn't trust anything right.
Speaker 2:I said that's still one of the big things that I still work through. Is sure trust period right? And so when you first went into treatment you would always try to call and talk to us and I just part of me was never not sad for you. A larger part of me was upset and angry, but I I never lost a sense of like.
Speaker 2:But that's my dad, you know and you know right there was, part of me was like well, I want my dad of my life, I want to talk to him. But I knew that that was only giving me a false sense of security, because I didn't know who you were anymore. I was like this doesn't feel like my dad and I was almost longing for who you used to be, because that was all I had known. I didn't know that you were unhealthy, and so it was weird. It was really strange because I was like I know where you are. I don't trust the counselors here, right, I don't trust. I didn't trust valiant, I didn't know, anything about them.
Speaker 2:We had never been to Colorado, like had nothing to do with it. We knew that you would do good there because you're just a nature-loving guy. I don't know like we just were like that feels right, but at the same time it was so foreign right. And then there's so many big life things happening, like grace going to college.
Speaker 2:We had some birthdays in the family like just things like that yeah where I struggled with the fairness part and the trust part more than anything. I was like this isn't fair. I don't know why this is happening. I just want my dad, but my dad is not who I thought he was and I don't trust him. I don't trust where he's at, but at least I know where he is and at least there there can be no more, yeah, lying he can't, so yeah sounds like that's a whole cocktail of emotions.
Speaker 1:You're having a process at one time, yeah, oh yeah, and kudos to the team at valiant because they made some decisions on our behalf that were best for our family, because they were looking out for you guys yeah, I remember yeah, the therapist there may have been Jill, I can't remember exactly who was probably that.
Speaker 1:No, it was Jill. She said hey, we're gonna limit your interaction with your kids. It's actually not good for them right now because they are. It's re-traumatizing them every night. We're doing nightly phone calls and it was awful. I remember it was awful, it was forced and I'm like in the midst of what they call pause, just post-acute withdrawal syndrome, where I'm like going through withdrawals and Jill's like you will use your family to feel better right now and and I was, and I was saying things on the phone and looking back. It was hurtful thing but I was trying to get you to affirm and the you know that your siblings to affirm me.
Speaker 1:I was trying to, I was, I was using. So, yeah, they made it. Several decisions that you know I pitched a fit over and I tell guys all the time in a program that trust your team, they're making decisions that are gonna actually help save yeah, you in the long run. One was not allowing.
Speaker 1:I say allow, right, you're you know you're not prison, but yeah they said listen, we don't want you talking to your wife for a while. You guys need to heal and work on yourselves and then, when you do start talking again, we're actually have a therapist present and we're gonna help you learn how to talk to each other again. And but that went a good 30 to 45 days of not talking to Jamie. Yeah, and the same thing with you guys. Hey, we're gonna, we're gonna set up a call every Sunday night. You remember this part?
Speaker 1:yeah it's like every Sunday night and the kids can get on the call if they want yeah and a lot of Sunday nights. You guys didn't like.
Speaker 2:We don't want to talk a lot, actually, because we also had to come to terms with the fact of, like we could no longer do it out of guilt, like that wasn't an option.
Speaker 2:Mom would make us sit and be like ask yourself what you want yeah because a lot of it was like we don't want him to be sad and think we don't love him anymore right and that wasn't good either so there was a lot of learning that we were doing too, unlike how to be in touch with how we really felt, because up until this point in our lives it we kind of revolved around you.
Speaker 1:Our whole family did right and if you were good, we were good, right so which is pretty typical of an addict come to find out as behavior like they're kind of the the center of their universe and everyone else has to rotate around them, which is something that we've tried to not especially Jamie and I've tried to not to break those patterns, yeah. But so, yeah, talk a little bit about about that, that kind of next season, like learning to like not necessarily trust again, because that's still a daily yeah but I'm even curious for you, talking to the parents out there that are listening to this, who have kids like what.
Speaker 1:I'm not advice, but what would you encourage them during that season, when there's a season of disconnection or, yeah, seemingly disconnection? Yeah why was that necessary and important for you?
Speaker 2:I think that I had to learn what I felt like. I needed that time to navigate my emotions about you because, like you said, it's like a cocktail drink of 5,000 different right emotions that you're feeling, and so I had to process that, and a week wasn't enough. Yeah, I needed to figure it out. You're also navigating life. Life doesn't stop when yeah, your ground gets ripped off from under you. So during this time, I'm going to school and, like expected to like yeah be on my A game when I couldn't.
Speaker 2:But as far as like not advice, but like what I would want to say to parents try not to overwhelm your kids with your emotion, if that makes any sense like that's good.
Speaker 2:I Needed to. In a lot of ways, I knew mom wanted to be there for me and I knew you wanted to be there for me, but I had to be there for myself. And I think that was so instrumental in my healing is I had to learn how to Feel what I felt without the influence of anyone else's feelings, because I knew everyone else was hurting. But my hurt was different from graces, which was different from ages, which was different from billings, which was vastly different from moms right.
Speaker 2:So I'm really glad that mom she Never was like overwhelmed us with what she felt, because I think it would have been really easy for her to let her Emotion start to dominate the house, and she didn't.
Speaker 1:She always has carried herself with so much grace, yeah, so and mom and, to her credit, in the midst of her, like immense sadness and brokenness. Never used you guys or weaponized you guys against me and vice versa. That I know about right like there was never a time where, like she was honest, you could tell she was struggling, but she never tried to use you guys or make you pick sides. Yeah, you know and Again thanks to valiant and some other therapists you weren't alone. You had people that were helping.
Speaker 2:Oh, my gosh, jill. Jill really became Not I mean a lifeline for me, like I would call her all the time and be like what is he doing right now? I don't want to ask him, but I need you to tell me or this is how I feel why. And she always made me feel better, not because she was telling me what I wanted to hear, but because she was so honest with me. Yeah, and she was at some time she felt like the only person that was being honest with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so I Huge yeah, meeting Jill for the first time was a big moment for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you got to go to. I Got that was such a, we'll get there. The good, the good parts coming, the good parts coming well, yeah, so you know we part of the process that valiant works, which, again, this is not a commercial, it just was such a big, it was is absolutely such an impactful Process that we worked, and to know that valiant has intentionality in how they helped us work our process.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:One is what you just said, which is they had to help me understand that my behavior. Part of the consequences of that was that each one of the people in our family were impacted and traumatized differently. So it was important for me to work in a men's process With everyone individually right like all the way down to Bentley she's the youngest but Still process. So it's like it wasn't like, hey, let me just write an apology letter to the kids. It was like no, I need to Work an individual process with each one of the kids. And part of that process was an impact letter and For me to actually hear from you guys directly the impact that my Actions had, yeah, on you guys. What was that? What was that process like for you?
Speaker 2:I Did not want to do it. So the whole time you've been gone, I had, like, this binder, and what my therapist was teaching me to do was to write what I wanted to tell you even though. I wasn't going to and so I had Not impact letters, but I was able to look back and see how I felt and writing when it came time to write the actual letter. I don't know if you remember this, but y'all had to ask me a lot like I was not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're the last one that came through and I didn't want to do it Because that would and a lot of ways it was real, but like that would make it real for some reason interesting. So, and I Knew that mine would be the harshest, because I knew I was.
Speaker 1:I'm not a sugar right coding kind of person like.
Speaker 2:I Just knew that and I had a lot of feelings like about it, obviously, as one would. But most of them were bad, most of them were like almost like a how could you like? And I knew I had to tell you that. But I knew because Grace is she's different from me, aj's different me, they. I knew their letters would Be honest, but just probably a little bit more gentle. And I don't nothing I do is gentle. That's not that song yeah.
Speaker 2:I knew that this was gonna be something, where I was like I'm, this is gonna be everything. Yeah like I have to do is for my healing. It was less about you totally but I was like he. I cannot walk away from this situation and have things that I feel like I never told him right.
Speaker 2:Because in the back of my mind, I always wanted our relationship to heal and I knew I would always resent you if I didn't tell you everything. Yeah, so writing it was awful. I was in our kitchen and I don't know where everyone was. It was like in the middle of the day, a school day. I just couldn't do school that day. Um, and I wrote it and mom came home and I was just like sobbing and she's like what's wrong? I was like I just wrote my letter and it was in Like definitely my top 10 lowest moments, like it was it had to be done, but I would never do it again.
Speaker 1:Well, it was so important for my recovery and I'm so grateful that you did do that, because I just I really needed to hear that. I needed to hear and really feel and own the impact of you know my, my behavior and my choices. And the beauty of it was I had a safe environment to receive it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know I was able to receive it there. I was able to read your letter to the other guys that were in the program. I was able to get support from them and encouragement and Draw strength from them in the program. So it wasn't like I had to get this letter and read it all by myself somewhere. It's like I read it in a really safe environment to help me process. But, man, it was so important that I that I was able to really hear those and and read. I read that letter.
Speaker 2:I don't know how many times I carried it with me for and I read it to you, do you remember?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I Do remember that On a zoom. Yeah, which is so brave I mean so brave for you to have to, like, face your dad for the first time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was our first time talking in like Two months.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and for you to read this letter to me, and then I had a copy of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So for me to even hear your own voice and your own words, you know, it's just such an important part of like allowing my allowing to feel the sadness, feel the feel, the weight of it, right, so that's like okay, this is Part of what keeps me in recovery is the empathy and I think when you're in your addiction, you lose empathy. For people.
Speaker 1:And it's especially the people, like he said earlier, like you're not seeing us, you're not, you know, you just lose side of that. And so this, that was an important step for me to like see you and so just sit with it and not to gloss over it, but to actually just like really take time with it, and that was a really important part of that. When do you think was the time that you started to feel yourself or allow yourself to start opening back up?
Speaker 2:It definitely wasn't linear?
Speaker 2:It definitely wasn't like, oh, I'm just deciding and like this is what I'm doing it. I really had to go back and forth with it and I think that was important to like Again, figure out how I was feeling and know that like I had to not. And I think it's also important For parents who are feeling this way to where they can't be a parent, like how mom Did the best she could but she had to be there for herself first and you had to be there for you first To get therapists who fill those gaps for your kids. Like the place we go to get counseling. We, I mean, we were there at least three or four times a week, like yeah.
Speaker 2:That was important. But anyway, I, after I read you the impact letter and I talked to Jill and she told me she like I think she gave me this like analogy of like a wall. She was like you can have your walls built, because I'm very much like, once you break my trust, you're out. But I knew I wanted to learn to trust you again. Yeah, and I knew it would always look different, but like that was important to me. So she was like have your wall up, have it up, but as you guys start connecting, you can slowly start to take it down, like each time he does something, just take a break off. Like you don't have to just like take it down now because I guess in my head it was like I just have to completely trust him again, like I'm not doing that, I just won't. I think we're still doing that every day, just like as we navigate different situations and different things that come up. That Watching how you react in situations helps me each day to like take a little block off my wall.
Speaker 2:Like yeah it wasn't After reading that impact letters when I started talking with you more and I would like text you or call you, or, but it was really important that and we did this. I don't think we mentioned it, but when I started talking to you again, you weren't allowed to reach out to me. I got to reach out to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was on your terms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which was so important, like I would. I don't know what I would have done if, like, you texted me and I felt like I had to respond, or you called me and I had to call you back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you guys were a hundred percent in the driver's seat. Yeah on that, yeah, and even in those little things, it was important for me not to break that trust. Yeah so say, hey, he's gonna respect this boundary, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And and I remember in my letter I gave you boundaries.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like you have to this is what you have to do, yeah and I would kind of not test you, but watch and see if you were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, keeping those in mind when you're talking to me. Yeah and as time went on, I just kind of yeah. You showed up for me Like you hadn't before, so that's when I was like okay, I can start taking some.
Speaker 1:What does that mean? Shown up for you like I hadn't before. Unpack that.
Speaker 2:I Think that I I just there was something so different about you, like it used to be kind of your world, I was living in it, and then I had to be like wait, I am a priority of his. Like he wants to talk to me because he wants to know me, not because he's my dad, and like we're around each other, like he's trying to get to know me or I don't know. Even when you started, you like come home on the weekends and stay at the house.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:I would watch how you treated mom and be like that's different. Yeah he's, he sees her. Yeah he sees me, he's. It wasn't that I expected perfection sure but also watching how you navigated my emotions when I would be like I just can't, like I don't look, like there's something coming up for me today, I don't know what it is when I would tell you that, because we always talked about honesty and we still do, but like being able to articulate how we feel.
Speaker 2:This made me feel this way, watching how you would yeah treat that because Growing up I think in use like if we I mean like physically got hurt and fell, you would get upset because yeah, like how? Why would you get hurt? But I think that played in a little bit emotionally too, when, when we had problems it was just not a big deal, it was like when you're a kid, like you're gonna right, you know feel those things.
Speaker 2:But you just kind of treated us differently and there was something about like there was just something so different about you when I was like I can't really deny that he's changed anymore. Like he's not really giving me a reason to not Open up to him.
Speaker 1:Like that's really beautiful to hear, then, that yeah, man, that makes me feel very. I mean so much gladness there, because that's that's obviously what I, what I want, and I think I still have shame. That comes up of the years where I wasn't able to show up for you guys in that way. But I just remember thinking at valiant like I there's still time, I still have time with her, I still have time.
Speaker 2:You know it's like, yeah, you know it's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've got some regrets, a lot of regrets, and they're shame from the past, but it's like it's not too late to yeah and honestly, is such a, it's such an honor and joy and I'm not just saying that to Rebuild trust, like the trust, yeah, the trust rebuilding process can be really beautiful because, yeah, it doesn't have to be like, well, I'm under a microscope now and you know it's like, if you're surrendered and open-handed to that process and you love the people you're rebuilding trust with, then it's not a problem, like, I don't have a problem showing up for you guys and rebuilding trust From now until the rest of my life. There's no end date or a time to like okay, trust is rebuilt back to the moment, it's like no this is.
Speaker 1:This is a way of life for us now.
Speaker 1:Yeah so it's not like well, let me just, you know, rebuild, and that's certain, you know, it's yeah, when you look at it that way, it's not a burden, it's like, no, this is the way we want to live. It's holding ourselves accountable to who we, who we want to be and the kind of person that we want to be, which is beautiful. And valiant Gives us the tools to know how to like. I had no idea how to hold space for other people's emotions, like, not at all like, but valiant gives us those, those tools to know how to do that. So I come home from valiant. You know it's been a A year and a half now. I just hit my year and a half mark of sobriety, and so it's.
Speaker 1:We've had a little bit of time like we've we've lived some life and we've made a lot of progress of the family and it's not been that long.
Speaker 2:I mean at the same time it's like it's, it's both right. So we're like it's. So it's so interesting to think about, because it's not that it felt. It feels like it's been a long time. Yeah but if you would have told me a Year and a half ago.
Speaker 1:That would be here.
Speaker 2:I would have literally probably laughed in your face because I thought it was over. I was like wow, this is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said that. I mean you made those comments of like hey, you at one point kind of wrote off the relationship.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, 100% Like that was yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's just where you were at the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah and yeah. If you would have told me that honestly in the middle of it, that I would have wanted to rebuild trust with you, I would have been like I'm out on it.
Speaker 1:So what would you say to parents, or even dads, going through a program like this? What would you say to them who they're in a really strained relationship with one of their children?
Speaker 2:I wanna be wise with what I say, because I this is big for me.
Speaker 1:This is something I really care about.
Speaker 2:Don't just don't give up on either the kid, don't give up on your dad, or mom, whoever it is in your life that you feel like trust is broken with, but you just can't let it go Like, even when it feels like that's all you want to do. I feel like that rebuilding process is so beautiful and it's so worth the pain you feel and I think, because I felt like I had written you off, it's made it so much sweeter because I was proved myself wrong, like I was, like almost I can look back and be like how naive, like you. Just that's how I felt and that was valid. But it became such a victory story of like being so low to be where we are now.
Speaker 2:And so I just I don't ever would wanna think that a parent was like I'm just out, there's nothing I can do, Like they, just it's your kid, they're always going to, whether they want to or not, have at least a part of them. That is like I just want my parent back.
Speaker 1:I just want.
Speaker 2:I remember telling mom that, like I want my dad, I just don't want who he is right now. So I don't know. I think that's so important is to dedicate yourself to whatever the process is and ask your kid what is it Like? What I can tell you right now if I would have been forced to do anything.
Speaker 1:Absolutely not.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. So just think how, what can I do? What is on your, within your boundaries, that you're making for yourself not that I'm giving you with your healing process and how you feel. What can I do to show up for you? Even if it's not even if it's not in the beginning, like that parent role. I don't know people's unique situations, but being like, okay, if you don't want me in that parent role in your life, how can I be? How?
Speaker 1:And if they sometimes just given space to show up, Just give me space if they say like I'll just go away, you have to let them heal.
Speaker 2:Cause they're always. I feel like kids are always, whether they want to or not, gonna save a small space for you, Cause they're your they're parents. So I don't know. I feel like there's a better way to say that, but that is something that is so important to me Keep showing.
Speaker 1:I mean, we say it in every meeting keep showing up, and I think that's, that's all it takes. One day at a time, you just show up. You show up honest and you know, over time you know the relationship can be rebuilt. You know, and it's different for everybody.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it happens quick, sometimes it happens over a long period of time but it's just keep showing up and and show up for yourself, like I don't know that was a big thing for me was I don't want him to get better for me, cause then that's not real. Like I think a big part of it my healing with you is even when you weren't showing up for me, because I wouldn't let you even when I was like I just need space for him. I watched how you were showing up for yourself and like the intentional changes you were making in your life to where I could watch and see, okay, he actually is different. He's not just trying to be in my life cause he feels bad. I was kind of like I want to see what he does without me. Like am I the motivator for this? When I'm not around, is he still going to show up for himself and be different for himself? That was important to me. That was so important to me.
Speaker 1:That's amazing. So we'll kind of wrap with this. How cool is it that? Oh my gosh, I got to just a couple months ago take you back to Colorado. We flew out there together. You're doing some college visits out there and was doing some work out there, and it was like got to take you back to Valiant and you got to meet all these people that have been so special, important in our lives.
Speaker 2:It was so emotional for me because I mean specifically Jill, Like I love Uncle Dan.
Speaker 1:I love, I mean I love everyone.
Speaker 2:They're sitting with Melissa, Like they are all. I mean I know if I ever needed anything I could call them, and I feel like we don't talk about how special does that you get to do stuff with Valiant now, Because I mean that in and of itself was crazy to me, but Jill was the person that I was calling all the time, and so getting to meet her in person, I was like, oh my gosh, you're real.
Speaker 2:I knew you were real, but you're doing real work for real families and this isn't just some place that I was never gonna go to. That was like I don't know. I felt like I kind of got to be brought into your story by being there Like, oh, this is what his life was like, and then meeting all those people, it kind of could reaffirm that. I was like, yeah, this is the right place, because I mean, I didn't know specifically Uncle Dan.
Speaker 1:I did not know Uncle Dan when you were there, I didn't know who he was.
Speaker 2:But then when I got to go there and meet him, I was like, oh, I'm so glad my dad was surrounded with someone like that, like there was just so many moments where I was, like it felt like I could have full, complete peace and like breathe almost where I was, like this, I wouldn't have wanted him to be with anybody else.
Speaker 1:It's a sacred place for me for sure, and taking you back there was just really, really special and for you to be able to meet everybody. And full circle moment and those guys are definitely that team is. They're my heroes, for sure, and they're in the trenches every day, helping families like ours heal and get healthy, and so that was super special.
Speaker 2:That was so cool.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, emery, thanks for doing this. I mean, you're an amazing person, you're super special and I'm not just saying it because I'm your dad, but just all for you to be able to talk about all this and you're doing your own podcast now. Shout out to that. You started a podcast with your friend. It's called On the Good.
Speaker 2:Side no.
Speaker 1:It's great and you're just bringing light and goodness into the world and you're not ignoring trauma or you're not ignoring pain. You're embracing the pain and there's just such beautiful things that are coming from that. So is there anything else you want to share? I'll give you the parting word.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, Um, I don't know. I just I hope that what we went through, if it helps one person it feels worth it to just be like this was what happened.
Speaker 2:This was real, this is what is honest about my life and I. That loneliness feeling was so I mean, it was so real and so I don't know. That's kind of I think our whole family's hearts on it is. I just I would love for someone to listen and say oh wait, there's hope for me too. Like, even if it looks different from how our story looked like, your life is going to be okay, like there is another side of this, if you want for yourself to get there and that's all I could really say is, like my story, our family's story, is going to be different from everybody else's, but no matter how it looks like when you dedicate yourself to the process and when you're willing, for your own sake, to heal, because that's what you deserve.
Speaker 2:You deserve to be whole and present and honest. Your life can be amazing again and better than it ever was.
Speaker 1:Well, we appreciate you listening to this episode of the Valiant Living Podcast and our hope is that it helped you feel educated, encouraged and even empowered on your journey towards peace and freedom. If we can serve you or your loved one in any way, we'd love to have a conversation with you. You can call 720-756-7941 or email admissions at valiantlivingcom. At Valiant Living, we treat the whole person so you not only survive, but you thrive in the life you deserve. And finally, if this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean a lot to us if you'd subscribe and even share it with your friends and family. You can also follow along with us on Instagram and Facebook by simply searching Valiant Living. Thanks again for listening and supporting the Valiant Living Podcast. We'll see you next week.