What if the key to overcoming addiction and mental health struggles was not just in the mind, but also in the body and the environment around us? This mesmerizing podcast episode promises a transformative journey through Valiant Living, unveiling how this unique program is bringing hope and revolutionary change to men and their families grappling with such challenges. Listen in as we discuss the struggle with resistance and anger, and how Valiant Living cultivates a safe haven for participants to find their path to healing. Communication is stressed as the lifeline of the program, and the nurturing of relationships emerges as a distinguishing aspect of the Valiant Living experience.
We cast the spotlight on our guest, Melissa, a beacon of compassion and understanding. Bringing her unique skills and open heart to the table, she uses yoga nidra, mindfulness, yoga, and wilderness therapy as instruments of change. Hear how she fosters a sense of being seen, heard, and understood in participants, subtly weaving the fabric of trust and connection. We also navigate the equilibrium between activity and rest, underscoring the integral role of physical wellness programs at Valiant Living, encompassing high-intensity interval training, yoga, and mat pilates.
As we bring the episode to a close, we plunge into the enigmatic world of sound therapy and vibrational sound therapy, examining their impressive effects in purging negative energy. The importance of nature in the recovery process is highlighted through a participant's spiritual awakening during a three-day adventure to the sand dunes, demonstrating that peace, inner stillness, and present moment awareness can be found even amidst chaos. We invite you to listen, imbibe, and be spurred to action.
What if the key to overcoming addiction and mental health struggles was not just in the mind, but also in the body and the environment around us? This mesmerizing podcast episode promises a transformative journey through Valiant Living, unveiling how this unique program is bringing hope and revolutionary change to men and their families grappling with such challenges. Listen in as we discuss the struggle with resistance and anger, and how Valiant Living cultivates a safe haven for participants to find their path to healing. Communication is stressed as the lifeline of the program, and the nurturing of relationships emerges as a distinguishing aspect of the Valiant Living experience.
We cast the spotlight on our guest, Melissa, a beacon of compassion and understanding. Bringing her unique skills and open heart to the table, she uses yoga nidra, mindfulness, yoga, and wilderness therapy as instruments of change. Hear how she fosters a sense of being seen, heard, and understood in participants, subtly weaving the fabric of trust and connection. We also navigate the equilibrium between activity and rest, underscoring the integral role of physical wellness programs at Valiant Living, encompassing high-intensity interval training, yoga, and mat pilates.
As we bring the episode to a close, we plunge into the enigmatic world of sound therapy and vibrational sound therapy, examining their impressive effects in purging negative energy. The importance of nature in the recovery process is highlighted through a participant's spiritual awakening during a three-day adventure to the sand dunes, demonstrating that peace, inner stillness, and present moment awareness can be found even amidst chaos. We invite you to listen, imbibe, and be spurred to action.
Hey everyone, welcome to the Valiant Living podcast, where we educate, encourage and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom. I'm your host, drew Powell, and I'm a grateful alumni of the Valiant Living program. Valiant Living offers hope and transformational change to men and their families struggling with addiction and mental health challenges. So on this podcast you'll hear from the Valiant team, as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at 720-756-7941 or you can email admissions at valiantlivingcom. We'd love to have a conversation with you, but for now, let's dive into today's episode. I've been just looking forward to having you on the podcast because I would say you are probably one of the most unexpected surprises of my experience at Valiant Jamie, my wife and I.
Speaker 1:It's no surprise that we just we adore you, we love you so much. You're a big part of my story and I was excited to have you on the podcast because I want people to hear what you do, because I was when I came into the program I'd never done yoga before I never, like you know.
Speaker 2:Oh, I remember Like it was yesterday.
Speaker 1:Isn't that funny. So, like I just know, for me I was. Well, how would you say I was? When I came in, was I resistant?
Speaker 2:I was going to say you were very resistant. That was the word that was on the tip of my tongue, yeah, and you were a little angry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I remember that one day.
Speaker 2:Came across. Yeah, I remember the day we fell in love.
Speaker 1:Well, because you were so kind in how you like here's. You know, most of us are like middle-aged men, and then you would take us outside in the lawn because it was beautiful out.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm like self-conscious about you know people driving by. I'm always wondering what are you thinking in these? Like most of us, lost people by myself out of shape overweight man out of you know doing yoga poses poorly, frustrated, because my control stuff was just pinging, which is one thing I learned about yoga. That was a kind of byproduct of doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But yeah, I was resistant and angry yeah.
Speaker 2:And I became in a little resistant and angry and I thought, well, this isn't my first rodeo with resistance and anger, so I wasn't you didn't scare me at all, right, but it was just. And that's really what I love most about doing this is that unfolding that process Right when someone like you comes in and you know, I think for a lot of oh gosh. You see it every day with these guys, right, and women too. We're born with ego.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And ego unfortunately drives so much of what we do.
Speaker 1:So true.
Speaker 2:So you know, if someone recommends or suggests that you aim to touch your toes, you want to touch your toes like the first time, and when we can't do something that we are challenged to do, we almost become more resistant or more determined. I guess it could go either way, but there was just this moment with you, just and.
Speaker 1:I, you can tell them, air it out, it's fine.
Speaker 2:It's not actually. It's like. It's like people, I don't know. Somehow you crack yourself open, right, and then maybe it's through that pushing. I like to think it comes through the physical process, you know, where you are learning to breathe differently and your body is learning to respond to the way you're breathing. Because we don't think about the way we breathe. And I think there was just a day where you know, maybe something happened in your physical body where, you know, a muscle released. I don't know, but I like to believe that that travels then up into the brain, into the mind, and it's like okay, I'm open, it's okay, I'm going to be okay here.
Speaker 1:I showed up so angry that day, but you provided such a safe place that you could tell, because I'm not a good poker player and I think you might even ask me hey, what's going on with you today?
Speaker 2:I did, I did ask you.
Speaker 1:And I think I just unleashed, not toward I don't feel like it's towards you no, no, for personal right Did it to you a little bit.
Speaker 2:Are you apologizing? Finally, how long has it been?
Speaker 1:It's thanks to the recording to finally come around with other people listening.
Speaker 2:No, no, I don't think. I certainly didn't feel that it was directed at me. It's hard for me not to take it personally and I've learned that through years and years of teaching mindfulness and working with people, and you know, specifically through yoga and meditation, their resistance. It's not about me, right? It's, and I and I, because I want so badly for people to discover what's underneath, what's in there, but it's not on my time, it's never on my time.
Speaker 1:Well, that was the day I learned that you all talk because by the time I got back to the next session, there was like this word on the street was Andrews angry today.
Speaker 2:And I was like how do they even know?
Speaker 1:Like I'm fine because I'm coming in still performing, faking my way through things and I was like I was like I'm going to leave that out on the, on the, on the, on the on the yoga mat and like no, everyone was like hey, he's in a mood today. Watch out. And we're like. But I appreciated that because I appreciated how much you guys work really hard to stay in communication. It's tough with people coming and going Everyone's in a different place.
Speaker 1:There's a lot of internal communication that goes on here. People don't realize, because you guys really do care about us. That is a thing about valiant I can say over and over again. You know, no one's ever claimed to be perfect, although everything that you guys did for me was so spot on. But I will say what the differentiator for me was the relationship Cause, even how you would lead your your classes, sessions, whatever, you were very intentional to see us where we were at. There were days where we showed up for yoga and we were all in a funk or something and you said you know what? Let's go walk.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We how many miles we put in over that park.
Speaker 2:A lot of walking, a lot of walking, a lot of walk and talk therapy. For sure. That's the key. I mean, you know a huge part of this. I have a couple of things to say about that in terms of I'll address that one first.
Speaker 2:My job is to read the room, always read the room. Whether I'm sitting across from you, just you and I, having a conversation, doing a spiritual conversation, therapy, or if I'm, if I'm in front of you know 10 clients, I can come in with a, an agenda or a, something that I want to conceptually introduce you to, whether it's emotionally, physically, spiritually, intellectually, all those things. But oftentimes that agenda gets tossed and I've taught yoga, teacher training for years, 200 hour programs, and I always emphasize to people that are going through that program that ultimately want to teach and lead people through this beautiful practice. It's really important to have a game plan. You've got to have your map and you've got to have your directions Right.
Speaker 2:At least I think so. There's other schools of thought on that, but that's at least how I've always operated and it's served me well and it's served others well. And I think you have to be able to read the room and pivot, and sometimes really pivot. Okay, I rolled out the mats. I, you know, I, your props are out, I've got this, this plan and, like you said, you guys come in and you're just all over the place.
Speaker 1:And I'm thinking there's.
Speaker 2:There's probably no way to reign this in. Let's move Right. So we did those beautiful walks and I'm glad that it's still. That's still, you know, in your heart and in your mind. You remember it. It's a good memory and you and you are. It's a fond memory of you know, maybe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would use the word sacred Because we did. We, the talks we had on those walks were so good and Would really kind of get our our hearts open and prepared for what we had for the day, like it was the first thing we do in the morning. We go on these walks. That's really where our relationships were were built. Yeah, our connections were made.
Speaker 1:Yeah and even your ability to pivot and like that I would even say it goes beyond just natural, into some supernatural Giftings that you have to see us. I mean the way I remember talking about the way you would pick the weekly themes. Yeah, jamie calling her like.
Speaker 1:I would show up and be like this is exactly what I needed that week and it's I think it's just the Attunement piece. It's like just you being dialed in with us, yeah, caring enough about us to get to know us, to learn us so that you can lead us in the way we need to be led. That day and it was a profound part, significant part of my journey. It's why I wanted to have you on. Excited to have you on because I want other people to hear more about you and your story and how you got into this. And you know we talked about yoga, but your role here is much, much bigger your wellness director and I'm excited to hear because there's some things you're doing now that I don't even know about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really grown sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so tell us a little bit about just your story. How'd you get into this?
Speaker 2:Into this job, specifically into this role yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, it goes back a long, long time I was. I was thinking about, you know, my own personal journey and Since I was a kid, I was always happier if I was moving. And when I was younger and I didn't know that, you know you could channel energy, yeah, I just a lot of energy, you know. So I was a, I was a super active individual for most of my life, but when I got into and so I graduated from college and I started to get into a career and stress, like real stress, started entering my life. You know paying my own bills and and holding, holding a job or I should say, building a career. You know the real stresses of life. I Realized that all that frenetic movement you know the running or the cycling or the triathlons like that was actually doing me a disservice.
Speaker 2:Oh wow me personally, like I needed to slow down Physically. I needed to kind of find ways to quiet my mind and redirect my energy, if you will. So I discovered yoga actually through. I was having panic attacks and there was a little community Like a community center in my apartment complex and I saw people in there doing yoga and I thought that's like that woo, woo stuff, it's too slow for me.
Speaker 1:Really like no way can I do that. I'm so interested in this. I didn't know this part of your story so you're a little resistant at first, like very slow too slow, right.
Speaker 2:So interesting, and I don't even remember like a specific Moment when I decided to go in and try it, right. But I immediately realized like oh, there's a way I can be breathing, I can control these, this anxiety as it arises, before it gets to the point where I'm having a full-on panic attack. I was I'm not a pill taker, I don't you know that's just not my modality and I've always been resistant to that. But I was put on meds at that time. My physician put me on meds to kind of help with the anxiety and I think that bothered me more than anything else. It just yeah, I was just not. I was just not wired that way. I wanted to do this on my own, in the most natural form.
Speaker 1:So I dedicated myself to it and it just one thing led to another, led to another and I love hearing that, Because you're so dialed in now and I remember very specifically one Friday I came in with so much anxiety and that was a Friday I think we did like a kind of like a yoga nidra Exercise which I explain that real quick yoga nidra. That's more of a I call reflective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I call it the softer side of yoga. Yeah, so yoga nidra. Nidra just translates quite simply to sleep, so it's the state between being fully awake and being sound asleep. There's sort of this, this beautiful place in between where, as a as someone is guiding you, you hear their voice and Oftentimes we'll do like a body scan, we start with the body and there's different layers of yoga nidra to get people to that state. There's been some cool studies around that it's it's. It's a fair, fairly new sure exercise.
Speaker 2:But I Think I read once that 15 minutes of yoga nidra equates to four hours of really good sleep, really. So they talk about that like middle of the day nap, like if you can close your eyes, you know, from 10 to 15 minutes a day. Then you you're rejuvenated, it's like it's a tremendous practice, but a lot of times I think the body scan alone. Yeah just teaching you know, starting there. Yeah, asking people like feel your right arm, feel your left arm?
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I remember specifically coming into that session with just anxiety through the roof and by the end of it and it may have been an hour, hour and a half, that we did, did that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's 90 minutes 90 minutes.
Speaker 1:I'm like man. I felt like a different person. That was one of the moments where like this works, like this was great. I felt peace, it helped me get present. That was one thing you would teach us is like hey, we can find peace if we'll just be present right now. I know you guys got a lot to worry about back home or wherever, but for this moment you can actually find peace in the middle of chaos.
Speaker 1:If you'll just slow down and be present all this stuff and I was like, wow, these are tools. And I've corrected myself. So I used to talk about how you guys would have saved my life, and I feel that very deeply, but I've changed how I talk about that because what you did is actually better than that, which was. You gave me the tools that I needed to save my life to and then to continue to live in Recovery, right, and that's that's more honest way of saying you know, and so much gratitude. But here's a cure. Here's something I'm curious about. So here you are, yeah, and you're dedicated your life to these men, right, so you're out there working with these guys all the time they go. What about you? Here? We're all men's facility and most of I mean, I would say, a very few percentage of men that come in have experience with, like yoga and stuff. Right, correct?
Speaker 1:right, this is new spot on, spot on so what is it Uniquely wired to you that you have like this, this passion and heart and gifting To be able to get through to us guys? Because, I will say, the guys I know in this program are very defensive and protective of you.
Speaker 2:Very much. So, yeah, I'm pretty, I feel pretty lucky in that Gosh. I don't know that I, I don't know that I see it as a gift. That's maybe just some deep humility, I don't know. I guess I just I don't see gender here necessarily, and maybe that's not the right answer just because I, I, I guess I see people. I do, I see people and I think that's the key is to just see someone, and I am. I've always been really intrigued by people's back stories. I love learning about people and understanding what makes someone tech and how you got here. I myself am not in recovery. I'm what the recovery addiction world calls a normie.
Speaker 1:OK.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:I haven't heard that term before. You haven't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, apparently that's a.
Speaker 1:I don't like to still know very many normies anymore. You know me.
Speaker 2:And I don't know if that helps me. A lot of our clients, you know they they'll sometimes, once we get to know each other in this 90 day or longer process, they'll ask me and they'll be some done, most of the time Very surprised Like how do you see us then? How do you understand us? And I wish I had, I wish I had a textbook answer to it, but I don't. I just think a lot of it is my intuition and I just come in with very open eyes and an open heart and I try to just approach all of my relationships that way. Yeah, but I don't. I don't see gender, I do. I see the person, yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:I do and yeah, you guys are protective when we go on our walks.
Speaker 2:It's funny because around here a lot of people know me. I teach yoga in the facility across the street. I just to be the yoga manager there, so helped build that program, so a lot of people will see me just driving by. And I remember one day a friend saying I saw this group of about 12 men Power walking and and they were big, bigger men, and in the middle of it there's this ponytail and they're like and they're driving by like 3545 miles an hour and they go. That's Melissa, yeah.
Speaker 1:What is?
Speaker 2:she doing. I love that. Because I always fly under the radar. Not a lot of people even know where I landed or what.
Speaker 1:I'm doing, you know, and that's fine.
Speaker 2:I like living my life that way.
Speaker 1:You're all these guys, but I could yeah you can run, but you can't hide. Sometimes yeah, yeah, I love that the only ponytail flowing with.
Speaker 2:My friend said can I ask what you were doing?
Speaker 1:power walking with all those guys. I wonder what people think driving by. You know, big burly guy, you're walking out there with us. They're my clients.
Speaker 2:But I'm glad you got so much out of those walk and talks, because at Valiant we're really about treating the whole person and community is such an important facet of what we do. And just you know, we know when we get outside and we get sun on our skin and we get fresh air and you know, in our bodies it changes, it changes our perspective. You could be having the worst day ever, yeah. And if you take a little walk with a couple of friends, or even alone, I don't know, I feel like something happens, something magical happens.
Speaker 1:It's a big deal and I just want people to know who are listening to this, who might be foreign to some of this stuff. The reason why I'm talking about this so much is because your approach is very like you challenge and push us, which is important, but then you also are good at knowing where that limit is of like OK, he's been challenged, let me give him a chance to rest or let me back off.
Speaker 1:It's not it's not a, it doesn't feel heavy handed, it always feels invitational. For one, it always feels like, hey, let's do this, you're going to challenge us. But then it was creative because we did Pilates when I was here. We did, we did that moonlight walk, remember it was raining and we were like, should we go? And then it ended up being just a great experience. So you're very creative in all the different things that you bring to table. There's the equine therapy stuff that we do. I did some of that. So tell us a little bit. What for someone who's unfamiliar? What is a wellness director? What all do you do here at Valiant?
Speaker 2:Well, my primary, my primary purpose here was to add, to add value to an already exceptional program, right, and to bring a little bit more awareness for our clients, awareness around again. Let's go back to that whole person, right? So I think of it as like for the four facets of our being physical, emotional, intellectual, spiritual, you know. And so, as a wellness director, I look at all those facets of each person that walks in the door and, like you said, try to keep it fresh. Not everybody's into the outdoors.
Speaker 1:True.
Speaker 2:Breaks my heart, crushes my soul.
Speaker 1:I may not be especially here at Gorge.
Speaker 2:And I say that maybe they're not into that when they first come here, but by the time our clients leave, I think they have a very different appreciation for the gifts that nature can give us. Totally Right, especially oh my gosh especially spiritually. So you know, I initially came in and our CEO, michael Deneen. He's a very spiritual human, his practices are exceptional and he's very dedicated to his practice of mindfulness. So it wasn't a hard sell. I mean, he and I have you know we've talked about this for a long, long time and it was sort of the void, if you will, and hopefully I came in and filled that void. So initially it started out with the let's teach them more meditation, let's teach our clients, you know, how to move in their bodies, and that's that four letter word yoga, although you know I'd rather call it movement therapy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So it started out that way and then it's kind of it's grown and it continues to morph and evolve into, I think, bigger and greater things where we can access the outdoors, the full moon hikes. Yeah, that was cool. Now we're taking guys out. We've made an investment in wilderness therapy and wilderness programming, so we take guys out for three and four days a month and we camp, we teach them, you know orient, hearing skills and how to set up campsites and as in community. So a lot of that work is around community. You know cooking. Everyone you know has everyone has a role. You know there's someone that oversees logistics for the day. There's someone that's in charge of meal prep. There's someone that's charging, you know of cleaning up, kind of keeping us all on task and on online.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I love that stuff. It's a lot of fun. You guys took us fly fishing when I was here. It was super fun.
Speaker 1:There's always great hiking and stuff oh yeah, and what I love is, like you were, you're helping us, especially on the weekends. You know we get done with therapy during the week and you're looking at this weekend like what now? What am I going to do at the time? And it's so important for us addicts to stay on a schedule too, to have things we're doing, healthy things we're doing, and there was always something fun and challenging that was planned.
Speaker 2:Well, yeah, I agree. I mean I think scheduling is important. The weekends can get a little dicey right, so we have to be careful we don't over schedule you guys. So because while I do appreciate schedules, I think downtime and quiet time and solitude again doesn't have to be by yourself right. But just having that space to relax and turn all of this off, because you're tasked with a lot.
Speaker 1:Monday through Friday.
Speaker 2:So we build that in when we go on these overnight experientials. We build in the time for solitude and quiet time, because I think you know the magical word, it's all about balance. We've got to maintain that throughout.
Speaker 1:So let's drill down a little bit more on, like some of these different things that you're doing, like the why behind it, like how, the benefit in mental health and spiritual health, all the stuff. Specifically yoga what have you seen? Why do we use yoga in recovery and how to connect the dots for me on that.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean you yourself said it earlier when we started.
Speaker 1:you know you came in as someone who never done the physical practice of yoga before and I'm laughing because I remember early on leaving one of the yogas, I was like if the point of this is the kid is more relaxed, well, it's not working because I'm more stressed after yoga. I look back and I'm so I'm ashamed that come. I'm just like, oh my gosh, well, I just was in my addiction.
Speaker 1:So strong anxiety and just you know, so I think it's why I have so much gratitude for you guys now, because I'm like man. I'm so sorry for that, but that's how I felt. But by the end I felt a lot better. So, that's why I was snickering about it. I'm like oh my gosh. Well, yoga is one of those things.
Speaker 2:I think that you know it's. It's a lot of people don't know this and they don't need to know this necessarily, but there's eight limbs in yoga and of yoga, however you want to say that, and asana, or movement, that's only one of the eight limbs. There's meditation, there's pranayama, which is breathing exercises. There's all these beautiful ways, because people will say to me do you do yoga? Do you practice yoga every day? And I and I say yes, because I, I do incorporate one or more of those eight limbs into the way I'm living my life.
Speaker 2:Yoga is a way of living For me. It's a way of living For you guys who come in here who maybe have never practiced, and even the ones who have practiced before. I try to teach them that this is a way of life. So this is not just you getting on your yoga mat for an hour a day with me guiding you. I hope there are principles from this practice that you take away from here and incorporate into the way you're living your life every day, the way you're making decisions, the way you're learning how to respond versus react when something arises that's uncomfortable, the way to be comfortable in the midst of all the discomfort?
Speaker 2:I mean, if you're holding a yoga pose and you know, I mean I can. You don't even have to say it, I can hear it. Your guys are cursing me out like what you're. She's going to break our bodies. No, I'm hopefully teaching you how to find comfort and peace in the space of discomfort in your body, because I think you know somebody who comes out of, who's in active recovery. You've got to find something else.
Speaker 1:Right right.
Speaker 2:And this is, I think, a pretty healthy alternative.
Speaker 1:Well, and as you're talking, what's coming up for me is just the willingness to be an amateur at something, like a lot of guys that get into this program. The way the program's, you know, designed a good, a good, not all, but a good portion of them have been externally successful, their internal world's falling apart, but externally successful. I was a control freak, all those different things and then you put us in the environment where, if I'm being candid, I haven't really tried anything that I'm not good at for a long time and I don't want to, I don't want to like. Even if I play a video game right now, I'm going to play Super Mario, the very first one.
Speaker 1:I'm going to beat the whole thing and put the controller down. Walk away.
Speaker 2:We like to be good at this. We want to be good at things.
Speaker 1:So this is like it challenges us to try something new for a lot of us and be bad at it. That's right and have to be okay with being bad or uncomfortable, and I mean I will say respect to people that do like. Before I tried it I was like, oh, come on, guys, they're holding poses like how hard can this be? It's tough.
Speaker 2:It's tough, right, it's tough, yeah, it's tough.
Speaker 1:Depending on what you do. I mean, there's a spectrum of stuff, right Like you don't throw us in the deep end immediately, but there's times where you'd roll out a new something or other and some of us would try it.
Speaker 2:Others are like no.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna break my neck if I do that. But yeah, it allows us to the gift of not being good at something, to learning something new and then processing the emotions that are coming up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love what you said about being a beginner. There's a whole concept in Japanese culture around this idea of the beginner's mind. And what if we approached everything that we do, even the things that we excel at, as a beginner? What could we learn about ourselves? Totally? You know this idea that well. I can't really learn anything more about that because I'm so good at it. I've never subscribed to that mindset and I'm grateful for that. You know, I go into a yoga class and I learned something new about my body every single time I get on my mat because I realized yesterday was very different from today and tomorrow's gonna be different from today. So, to be present and just to be in that moment physically, spiritually, emotionally, all that together we can, if we're open to it, learn something new. How do you get open to it? Yes, surrender.
Speaker 1:Surrender, all that word.
Speaker 2:That word is so important. Right, it was interesting. One day, I think I must have themed a class on surrendering and someone came up to me after class and said they were really kind of triggered by the word because they are a former military person. Isn't that interesting, you know? And the word surrender means to give up, to quit, and it was just that. We had a beautiful conversation around it and it just again. What did I learn? I learned so much from that. I had always approached this idea of surrendering as sort of a sacred thing, and then I realized it's not sacred for everyone.
Speaker 2:So, it's semantics. Let's find something else that gives you peace and calm when you think about letting go of releasing control, not being attached to a specific outcome.
Speaker 1:Sure, open-handedness is what I mean. It was just going into situations saying I'm gonna be in the moment, I'm gonna be present. I'm gonna learn what I need to learn from this. I'm gonna be, you know, and there's another guy that was ahead of me in the program and a great piece of advice he gave me. He's just said man, the quicker you can get to the surrender, the better this is gonna be for you.
Speaker 2:It's very true.
Speaker 1:And it's hard, you know it's like you know. You guys kept me in PHP longer, and a big reason why was the first couple of weeks at least, I wasn't surrendered, at least not fully. You know, and it's a daily. You're never fully. I don't think. Maybe you know, get there if you're practicing daily. But you know, but that's a big part of it.
Speaker 1:Just living open-handed and just saying, hey, I'm gonna be willing to try this. You talked a little bit earlier. I just wanna go back to the nature piece just from, like a. Why is that important? Why, what have you seen as far as being able to be in nature, being outside, even just spiritually, mentally? Why is it important that we work that in intentionally into our treatment?
Speaker 2:Oh, there's so many things. The first thing that comes to mind is the last time we went. We went on this three-day adventure down to the sand dunes. Colorado has a national park, great sand dune national park, and one of our participants on that trip had. He called it a spiritual awakening, and I'm really careful using words like that because, again, that translates differently to all of us, right.
Speaker 1:Those are his words, as he described it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and we talked about it and he had grown up in that area and been going to those sand dunes since he was a little kid. But from the time he was a teenager and he was introduced to alcohol until this time in his life, where he's a grown man, maybe early 50s he had only ever experienced the sand dunes drinking as an alcoholic. He's always drank when he was down there and he had the most profound experience of his life when he was down there because he was sober and seeing it for the first time, and so I'll never forget that story and it just touched me so deeply because I thought to myself I didn't go to the. Oh my gosh, he's missed so many things in his life. Right, I didn't go there at all. I thought to myself how beautiful that the rest of his life he's going to see things for the first time.
Speaker 2:Because, he's in this, and I think nature does that right. When we get into nature, we realize there are so many gifts In spirituality. We talk about something greater than ourselves. Right, spirituality has different connotations to each person at the table, but most of the time it's something bigger than us, right, right, I mean, I don't know how you subscribe to it, necessarily, but nature. There's nothing greater than nature for showing us that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's why I love it, even as a non-believer right.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Well. You, just you need to be reminded, and I'll speak for myself In my addiction. I'm the center of the universe. Yes, I'm the biggest person in the universe, my ego, everything else. Specifically here, because I'm a Florida boy, I grew up next to the ocean, which is awesome, that's majestic, but it was normalized for me. I get out here in the mountains and I'm around these huge mountains. It's beautiful. You would take us places with beautiful rivers. I remember when we went paddle boarding.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And we were trying to do yoga poses on paddle boards. But we just went out and had fun in the community that was built, of all the paddle boards. But we're in this beautiful place and I need to remind I need to remind her in a positive way of how small I am.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Like you, are not the center of the universe. Yes, you're just one small piece, an important piece Not devaluing myself, but there's a lot going on here. There's a lot of things bigger and nature does that for you. It exposes you to those things and it allows you to be small.
Speaker 2:I think so too.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think so too, and I think it's really important to invite that, whether you're in recovery or not. I mean, I take women who are not in recovery necessarily. I take them on retreat every year and it's just an opportunity to reconnect. I always say to people reconnect with your authentic nature through nature.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let this opportunity of us being on this mountain top, are on this body of water, or just simply sitting on the ground, or laying on the ground looking up at the clouds as they change in the sky, let that be a reminder or an invitation, if you will, to rediscover your authentic self, because all of us are trying to. We play all these different roles and we wear different hats and, in some cases, we wear masks, right.
Speaker 1:No, yeah.
Speaker 2:And take all of that off and just find who you really are and what makes you shine, what makes you happy, what gives you peace, all those things, and I think nature is. For me, there's never been a better place to find it, yeah.
Speaker 1:This is making me want to go on, go on. I'm just there thinking I like I almost forgot where podcasting went, I was like, yeah, let's go do something.
Speaker 2:I know I always come back after being out on these, these experientials. And my partner in crime, will Roman he works here as well, he's fabulous, he's a therapist, and the two of us we kind of work in sync. You know we bring the spirituality element and the clinical element. We put it together and it seems to really work. But we come back and we're in like a little bit of a funk you know, because I've again four walls. I want my feet in the. Yeah, fluorescent lights versus natural sunshine.
Speaker 1:People can see. There's a picture behind you, this beautiful nature. So as you're talking, I'm looking at that. So I'm like transplanting myself to over there. But all the things you're saying is so true. And we, by the way, we got to get Will on the podcast with you?
Speaker 2:Yes, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:We'll have you back and I will on and we'll do that again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we've got great stories. Oh, I'm sure, I'm sure.
Speaker 1:So we'll talk about some of the more experiential things that you're doing now, some of the stuff you're exploring and for the guys in the program, Well, we're doing the standup paddleboard yoga.
Speaker 2:We're still out there doing that. It's always a hit, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's so fun. Are you still doing sound, the sound bath stuff?
Speaker 2:The sound baths.
Speaker 1:That was incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Sound therapy, vibrational sound therapy, tell them about that.
Speaker 1:For me, if someone doesn't know what that is, oh my gosh, that was wild, was it. I was real close to the gong thing.
Speaker 2:The gong Is that what it's called. Yeah, sure.
Speaker 1:I was up front and there was some moments of like it was intense, yeah, and you had done a good job of prefacing, because I think I'd had anxiety if I didn't know, oh yeah, Like hey, I don't know how much more of this I'm going to be able to take.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1:But you had already told us like, listen, this is not going to hurt you.
Speaker 2:It's not going to you know what I mean?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because I think you would think that.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But it wasn't necessarily a painful noise, it was just there was an intensity to it.
Speaker 2:There's an intensity and listen a lot of people. It's so funny because people will ask they want specifics. What can I? What can I expect? What's going to happen? You know people don't like the unknown. Here we go again.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, control again yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and I try to always advise people because I learned this myself. When I first started doing sound baths as a participant, I'd have an expectation and sometimes that would lead to fear because I wouldn't know what to expect, et cetera, and it's been a different experience for me every single time. You know I've done it as a participant, so I don't like to lay a whole lot of expectation around it. But sound therapy has been around for years and the gong, the cymbals we have something called Koshy Chimes, which are chimes that they try to emulate sounds in nature Is that what you were walking around with?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you had something like. It was like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was cool. And vibrational sound is, you know, it's been shown to kind of cleanse or clear negative energy from the body. I have felt that personally, you know, in those moments where the gong gets really, really, really loud and you just want to get up off your mat or off the floor and bolt for the door. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean it can. What is it bringing up? We don't necessarily know, but we know that it's moving something. Totally it's moving something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love that yeah. I love all the creativity you bring to all the stuff and a lot of people don't know that there is, like, even the physical wellness part, like the partnerships we have with the gym, the area and stuff like that is is huge.
Speaker 1:Like every day in the part of the program we were dropped off. If we didn't have, sometimes we had one-on-one stuff we had to do, but from two to four every day we were dropped off at the gym and we got to focus on our physical bodies. That's a big part of the program for you.
Speaker 2:That's a big part of the program and since you've been here it's evolved even more so every morning, from eight to nine, we have some form of movement. So Monday, wednesday, friday, they're doing yoga with me, and then on Tuesdays we're over at the gym doing something called Hit Fit high intensity interval training boxing, kicking, you know, and it's just, it's so great, it's super cardio oriented. The music, they cranked the music up.
Speaker 2:Last week was so cool. The guys were, the guys were so into it and they were playing Bon Jovi, living on a prayer, and I just I just stopped in my workout. I mean I get really, I do all these with the guys, I love it. I'm like this is great and also just want to make sure everybody's form is pretty, is pretty good. But I stopped and I just stood back and watched Talk about being in the moment, that part where everyone's like oh you can probably take it, but I was gonna make like that chanting and and they were singing it while they were working out, and everything.
Speaker 2:They were screaming it at the top of their lungs and I thought to myself now, this is what I love about this work. It was I did. I got choked up just to see them, all you know, fist pumping with their boxing gloves on.
Speaker 1:Living on a prayer, so cool.
Speaker 2:And then Thursday mornings it's such a beautiful balance. Thursday mornings we do something called mat pilates, so you got to experience pilates on the reformer on the machine. Super cool. Now we have a consistent every Thursday. The guys you know we do mat pilates, so it's a really nice combination of strengthening cardio core development, like and that's every single day. They're in their bodies first thing in the morning. And every now and again I throw in a little walk and talk.
Speaker 1:Little walk and talk yeah.
Speaker 2:Don't tell anybody, but we're gonna do that tomorrow.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, that's all Gosh, that was my, that was my favorite. Yeah, and I love you. Know, bigs, and I would always joke because we do the. We call it the exact executive workout.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that would be the two to four you guys would yeah.
Speaker 1:That's the executive workout. We were hitting the weights. We might do a couple of weights, whatever. Then it was like steam room, maybe sauna, maybe jacuzzi lay by the pool or, like you know, I think your group coined that term. Is that our term?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Because somehow it continues to be bantered about here and I'm like wait, that group calls it the same thing.
Speaker 1:Maybe it's just a thing, but yeah, we're like hey, we're gonna go do an executive workout, which basically means we're gonna sit in the steam room.
Speaker 2:But that's super important. We have a terrific relationship with club Greenwood, which is the gym. Oh, it's incredible. And walking distance across the street from Valiant, from our, you know, executive offices and our center. So it's nice for the guys and, like you said, from two to four there's. That it's a luxury, it really is, it's so nice.
Speaker 1:Here's what I want guys to know who are listening to this that are considering coming, or maybe a family or friend Is that there is so much space for fun, rest, exercise, enjoyment. That facility is beautiful, amazing. I mean I was just so surprised when I got here at like I was gonna say extracurricular. But it's not. It's built into the program for a reason. It's not. It's part of our therapy. But if anyone's listening to this and has a fear of, like man, am I just gonna be sitting in therapy all day long? Whatever, absolutely not. You guys put a lot of intentionality into getting us out, getting us moving, providing stuff. I mean, the gym is by far the nicest I've ever been to, personally, I mean it is like a resort level.
Speaker 2:Gym is beautiful.
Speaker 1:But I felt very, very cared for, like it was time for me to really focus, and you guys would always encourage us. You'd be like listen, give yourself a gift of this 90 days or however long you end up being here to really focus on yourself. And if you do that, I promise all the other relationships are gonna get healthier and better, because at first a lot of us are here just like we're here to fix stuff that we've broken and messed up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or you're forced to be here, You're given an ultimatum and you're not here on your own volition, right? I love that you heard that message so loud and clear. That's such an important message and to mirror that, I hope that I say to you guys yes, I have to remind you all the time, right, Self love, self care. We talk about how we do that meta prayer, that prayer of loving kindness, and the first layer of that prayer is dedicated toward oneself, and then subsequent layers are to someone that we love, to someone that we've you know who's heard us, and then universally to our community.
Speaker 1:I love that prayer.
Speaker 2:I love that prayer too. That's an important one, and what I wanna say about that is a lot of times addicts will come in and they, yeah, they're self absorbed and they're ego driven, but they've never really understand what it's like to love themselves, because it's hard to do when you're not you know. When you're in this delusional space, once everything becomes clear, it's much easier to see yourself for who you are and as you're working on yourself, hopefully you start to love yourself more and more and more. I am lovable. I do deserve, because I love what you said about those other relationships. Oftentimes most of the time I like to be, I'm an optimist Most of the time those relationships are healed.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, the people that love us the most are just. I was just talking to a guy last night about it it's in program Was very worried about his family. I was like, listen, in my experience, my family was just waiting for me to show up and be consistent and be safe and have myself, all of those words Like just hey, I've got me.
Speaker 1:I'm not you know, jill, we're having her in the pocket too, but she would always say, Drew, your tendency is to smoke people, which just meant, like that's your drug, so stop using your family to feel better, whatever you might need, and I was just in my experience again, I don't describe this for everybody.
Speaker 1:I was, I've been so full of hope at how quickly my family has chosen to forgive and embrace and to even build respect and trust back when I was willing to show up and just do the work every day. Yes. So a lot of guys in this program think I mean I've just, I've jacked up my family forever. And sometimes the consequences of our behavior is there's those moments that happen where relationships aren't restored, because it does take everyone doing the work right, yes, but when we show up, I'm telling you, the chances go I don't know what the percentage is, but as high of the people that actually love and care about us.
Speaker 2:I agree, 100% Give yourself the 90 days. Give yourself or whatever.
Speaker 1:It could be 120,. It could be a year, whatever you need. Give yourself that time. It's a blip on the radar.
Speaker 2:It is a blip on the radar and Michael Sims, he's our chief clinical officer. I had to make sure I got his title correct. He's everything.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and he was just on. We two podcasts ago he was on, so you can go back and listen to that.
Speaker 2:He's. So his reminder is just slow down, slow down, slow down, and it sounds simple. It's very difficult to get someone to slow down. He runs me all the time. Slow down, really, and I should be the queen of slowing down, right, but I like to take on things and really go full force. But he's really good at reminding everyone and reminding our clients of that. It's very important to slow down and give yourself this time to be here and your family. I just wanna say, cause you used your family as that example. They're a beautiful example. They were waiting for you to show up and be safe, consistent and safe. I love that. That's so true.
Speaker 1:And they did the work for families listening, they did the work too.
Speaker 2:There's where it is. That's what I was gonna say. And I tell these guys encourage your families and we've got Joe who's gonna be on here shortly to talk more about that but if the families are doing the work, and they're working as hard as you guys are doing the work, that union, that reunion, magical.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, listen, we have to have you back on.
Speaker 2:We didn't talk about shocker.
Speaker 1:Well, there's so much we didn't talk about. We gotta go, and all that. We have you back on Last question, though give us just what are you dreaming about For valiant, for yourself, for us, what are your hopes and dreams for people that are listening?
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, my hopes and dreams are that everyone can find peace. Inner peace that's really what it is. That's my hope and my dream for this company, for all of us that work here, for the guys that come through our program to really figure out and understand what your inner peace looks like and feels like. Because, no matter how tumultuous things get around us, if we know our inner peace and what gives us that inner peace, I think that's a pretty good gift.
Speaker 1:I love that. So grateful for you and what you do here. It makes a difference in our lives. So thanks for being on.
Speaker 2:You're welcome. Thanks for having me. I can't wait to come back.
Speaker 1:Well, we appreciate you listening to this episode of the Valiant Living Podcast and our hope is that it helped you feel educated, encouraged and even empowered on your journey towards peace and freedom. If we can serve you or your loved one in any way, we'd love to have a conversation with you. You can call 720-756-7941 or email admissions at valiantlivingcom. At Valiant Living, we treat the whole person so you not only survive, but you thrive in the life you deserve. And finally, if this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean a lot to us if you'd subscribe and even share it with your friends and family. You can also follow along with us on Instagram and Facebook by simply searching Valiant Living. Thanks again for listening and supporting the Valiant Living Podcast. We'll see you next week.