Ever stopped to ponder how former addicts reconstruct their lives, finding purpose and passion in the aftermath of their toughest times? Wonder no more. Today, we have the pleasure of welcoming JR, a former addict who now serves as a case manager at Valiant Living - an organization providing support for men and their families dealing with addiction and mental health struggles. This conversation delves deep into the challenging, yet immensely rewarding journey of recovery, reflecting on the crucial elements of trust, compassion, and patience throughout the process.
Transitioning to life post-recovery is often a path less traversed in recovery discussions. Yet, JR opens up about his own transition from working in a deli, where he honed communication skills, to becoming a pivotal part of the Valiant Living team. The conversation underscores the role of case management and life coaches in providing comprehensive care and guidance for those on their recovery journey, highlighting their impact beyond the walls of a treatment center.
Finally, we unpack the intricate dance of personal growth and the role of case management within a recovery context. How do case management, housing, and therapeutic teams collaborate to create a nurturing environment for clients? JR’s personal success story, along with his deep gratitude for the work he does through Valiant Living, will undoubtedly fill you with hope. Join us, and let this powerful conversation inspire you toward a life of peace and freedom.
Ever stopped to ponder how former addicts reconstruct their lives, finding purpose and passion in the aftermath of their toughest times? Wonder no more. Today, we have the pleasure of welcoming JR, a former addict who now serves as a case manager at Valiant Living - an organization providing support for men and their families dealing with addiction and mental health struggles. This conversation delves deep into the challenging, yet immensely rewarding journey of recovery, reflecting on the crucial elements of trust, compassion, and patience throughout the process.
Transitioning to life post-recovery is often a path less traversed in recovery discussions. Yet, JR opens up about his own transition from working in a deli, where he honed communication skills, to becoming a pivotal part of the Valiant Living team. The conversation underscores the role of case management and life coaches in providing comprehensive care and guidance for those on their recovery journey, highlighting their impact beyond the walls of a treatment center.
Finally, we unpack the intricate dance of personal growth and the role of case management within a recovery context. How do case management, housing, and therapeutic teams collaborate to create a nurturing environment for clients? JR’s personal success story, along with his deep gratitude for the work he does through Valiant Living, will undoubtedly fill you with hope. Join us, and let this powerful conversation inspire you toward a life of peace and freedom.
Hey everyone, welcome to the Valiant Living podcast, where we educate, encourage and empower you towards a life of peace and freedom. I'm your host, drew Powell, and I'm a grateful alumni of the Valiant Living program. Valiant Living offers hope and transformational change to men and their families struggling with addiction and mental health challenges. So on this podcast you'll hear from the Valiant team, as well as stories of alumni who are living in recovery. If you or someone you love struggling to overcome addiction or trauma, please call us at 720-756-7941 or you can email admissionsadvaliantlivingcom. We'd love to have a conversation with you, but for now, let's dive into today's episode. Dude, I'm so happy that you're on like I've been looking forward to this podcast with you, because you normally wouldn't say this to your face, but you're one of my favorite people on the planet.
Speaker 2:I just love you so much.
Speaker 1:Oh, thanks, man. You were my case manager. We walked through this stuff together, man.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think the connection that you and I had from the beginning and we were just talking about it, right that emotional arm wrestle that you and I had from the beginning, right, and just the willingness for you to come to the table and meet and meet you there to do whatever it needed to happen in that moment, is why we're here today and have the connection that we have today. Man, that's the coolest part of this whole process and I say that right, you know my unfortunate things, your unfortunate things allowed us and our paths to cross and like that's the beautiful thing about this whole process.
Speaker 1:It is man and you treated me with such kindness and honesty and compassion and I did. I was so, you know, and all the case managers here are amazing. But I was so glad that I got put with you because there was an instant connection there. But you had to tell me some tough stuff and especially that I'm in the height of my addiction at this point, like anxiety and performance. I mean you remember like I was coming the first couple of weeks like I'm an aces program, I'm going to go through this faster, and you guys saw right through that. I mean it was, I was not fooling anybody.
Speaker 2:Well, and there's a part of me right Because, even through like my own journey, through addiction and recovery, right Like there's a part of me that wants you guys to like me.
Speaker 2:And so the dynamic of like there's this new guy in the program, I want him to like me, so he'll trust me, and on the other hand, I have to have some of the most difficult conversations here of like no dude, like you can't talk to your family for a couple of weeks, or we're going to put this intervention in place, or we're going to do this, and it's tough, right. It's hard to kind of set those boundaries.
Speaker 1:Well, I tell guys all the time that and it's not, there's no perfect people here, it's not, I'm not about that. But what's what was true for me is that every decision that Valiant made on my behalf, even the ones I hated, were the right ones in hindsight that ultimately helped save my marriage, save my life. I mean just things that are simple things. But I was so destructive in that season, didn't know it, because I'm still in my performance and you know. And so, man, just I just want to say thank you, thank you for loving me and you took me to church for the first time and I had, like you know, coming from my background of church work and stuff, that was like I didn't know if I'd ever be in church again and I had just tears rolling down my face. You know, and the way that you care for us, but also the way that you are tough when you need to be tough, but you do it with love, is you're gifted in this man.
Speaker 2:And those are the moments for me as well. Right, you and I have had conversations where, like, I'll get a text message or a picture of a family that's been put back together and I'm bawling at a red light and like the car next to me is, like, what is wrong with that dude, it's 730 in the morning but, like, my heart is so filled with gratitude that I was chosen to do this work because that's what I believe right.
Speaker 2:Like, not everyone can do this work and I was chosen to be able to get with you guys on that level, get with our clients on that emotional, raw, vulnerable level.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's incredible. Well, in, like you said, whether you want to call it a calling or whatever it is for you, I mean, you have an incredible story yourself, right, and so would you be willing to tell us as much of that as you're willing to. But how did you get to where you are today and working case management?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I came to Denver from a very small town, a very small town in Northern New Mexico, it's called Chalmance, a little bit north of Espanol and Santa Fe, and back home, culturally right, like the Hispanic culture, you know, we're very like sweep things under the rug, like we don't talk about our issues, like you know, very, very different than what's taught in recovery. And you know, right out of high school, you know I was on track to. You know I was training to be a paramedic. I was an EMT working on the local ambulance, wanting and hoping to get into a physician's assistant program.
Speaker 2:And you know I was in a car accident while working at the emergency room that I was working at and I got prescribed Oxycodone right. And it's interesting because I vividly remember, you know, the ER doctor's name, what she looked like and what was happening in that moment when she gave me that prescription Oxycodone right. And that's when my life changed. You know I'll own the fact that I chose to take those medications unprescribed, but that's when it changed and I found myself with this really debilitating pill addiction that I couldn't afford anymore and I surrounded myself with people that were like, hey, man, like there's this substance out there that's a lot cheaper and a lot better high and it's called heroin and, with my medical background, right Like I'd worked on people that had been brought into the emergency room from heroin overdose.
Speaker 2:You've seen the first hand I've given people Narcan that were having you know that were OD on opiates and I find myself like sitting at you know a trap house in scrubs, getting out of work like injecting heroin Gosh, that was, that was something else right. And so my addiction, you know, is, you know, meth and heroin. Like to go fast and slow it down. Go fast and slow it down.
Speaker 1:Man of extremes, right From one extreme to the other.
Speaker 2:And it's like you know, I found myself bankrupt. I was, you know, like emotionally, spiritually, and you know my little brother's a cop, and I mean you've got some fun stories about that.
Speaker 1:How did I put that guy through, man?
Speaker 2:It was like cops and robbers all the time. Like I'd see him, I duck and dodge, he'd pop up somewhere, chasing after you the way not really, but kind of right and.
Speaker 2:I'll tell this story. It was for his birthday in 2017, so I got clean on December 15th 2017, but that January, for his birthday, we're having a family dinner at my mom's house and he's sitting across the table from you, like across the table for me, like you and I are sitting, and he's in uniform and I'm just loaded out of my mind, right, and he looks at me dead into my soul, right? You know all of that stuff that you're doing in Pagosa Springs, colorado. He's like every time you cross the state line, it's a federal charge and I I can't help you in federal court. Like once you're in the federal system, like I can't help you, and I was like, oh crap. So I like slowly pushed out my seat, dumped my food in the trash and I was gone. Right, this was in January. And I was like, oh, like they're on to me right, like they know stuff and so fast forward from January to December.
Speaker 2:I was, I was in a trap house and the Mexico State Police kicked the door in. They served a search warrant and I was in there and you know that detained me and they called my brother off duty to show up to where I was being detained and when he got there, you know he saw the substances that I had on the the cops had seized. They were on the hood of the cop car and you know they were working with me in Mexico State Police. They were trying to work with me and they're like amen, we just need you to be honest. If it's yours, I'll help you. But just be honest, because at first I was.
Speaker 2:I was like that good drug addict, right, I don't know where that came from he's like, and the cops like dude, it was in your bag and I was like well, somebody put it there right, like that's, that's like their professional drug addict.
Speaker 2:Response right, and so when my brother showed up, I was like, all right, like it's real, and so I said it's mine, it's all mine. And the moment that those words left my mouth, my little brother it's a law enforcement officer told the narcotics agent to handcuff me, lock me up and charge me with whatever felony they could charge me with. And uh, wow, um, how did that feel, when I mean, in the moment, I was angry. Right, I was angry because I had just been told that if I was honest, they would help me, but I was so clouded, yeah, that I didn't realize that. That is, that that was the help that I needed right, yeah like.
Speaker 2:That's what I need you see that as an act of kindness now looking back 100%, and I will forever be grateful that he did that to me or did that for me, right? And so I get booked and I get you know all of that, and I land up in Denver at a treatment center. I did six months of residential treatment in lieu of any jail time or any charges. Okay, it's my first offense, and so the courts back in New Mexico were pretty lenient on me not having a prior record. And then, after six months of residential treatment, I came to Valiant in June of 2018.
Speaker 2:Okay, and did four months of IOP with and housing with Valiant, so you did a full year. I did, yeah, about 10 months, 10 months of treatment yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 1:I think it's important for people that are listening or watching this to hear and we've said this before, but you know it sometimes it takes 30, 40 years to get to the position we're at, and it oftentimes it's not a quick 30 days, 69 like.
Speaker 2:Oftentimes it takes a little longer to get to where you need to be right well, and it took absolutely right, and it took me a while to realize that, like I didn't become addicted in one day, so like this process takes as long as it takes and I had to be willing to do whatever it took right, like inactive addiction, I was willing to do whatever it took to get high, right. So you know, allowing myself the permission to do whatever it takes to get better, right I mean landed me into some opportunities that I never imagined were possible well, I mean, it's just so cool full circle.
Speaker 1:Look at what you're doing now for other guys like myself, and I mean the countless other people. What was the moment for you where you went from like, so you're living in recovery, you go through your treatment and you're living recovery? What was the moment where you thought to yourself? You know, it sounds like you've always had a draw towards care of some some sort right, that's absolutely. But when were you like I think I want to go into this, I think I want to do this for my, my life, my career you know, it was towards the end of my time here at valiant as a client.
Speaker 2:I was working with a life coach, laurie Obanauer, to shout her out because she's a huge part of my story. We were doing some life career coaching work and she asked me she was like hey, like, what do you think about working in the industry? I was, you know, real talk. I was working down the street from here at King Supers in their deli. I was like ready to be a deli manager man. I was like this is great. Like I'm not using money's, all right.
Speaker 1:Like was that like your recovery job.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was my recovery job man. I sliced deli turkey and deli ham for eight hours and you're happy I was. I was living the dream right, because I wasn't getting high, right, right, and that was profound for me. And I look back and I'm like that is crazy, can I?
Speaker 1:pause right there for a second though, because I think what you said is significant, because it's what you guys teach us in here, because a lot of us come in from these careers that we've built and you know we have all this identity issues and whatever, and then we find so much joy in peace, contentment and working these jobs. Remember when I was sending you pictures of me because I was fencing, and you know my friends back home when I told them I was fencing, it was easier for them to believe that I was a sword fighter than I was actually putting up you know actual fences.
Speaker 1:But, bro, I was so happy, I was so content, I was so at peace when you don't have to attach your identity to, or at least you learn how to compartmentalize that in a healthy way, right. And so I just wanted people to hear that part, because a lot of the guys that come in here and I'm one of them that's a big part of what's playing into our addiction is all this identity stuff that we're building.
Speaker 2:And to hear you say man, I was just so happy and at peace because I wasn't using and I was in the deli, that's huge well in a huge part, and your spot on right, because even looking at my journey through that, like what that job helped me learn is how to talk to people, how to interact with people, because in active addiction we're so isolated from not only ourselves, our true selves, but everybody in general.
Speaker 2:And so this recovery job that like, allowed me to learn how to talk to people, how to listen to people, how to problem solve to see, people see people and interact with society as a whole.
Speaker 2:Yeah is kind of like that stepping stone to be able to like handle some of the things that I handle here. Yeah, and have a conversation with the client of like hey man, like no, like your family's not ready for you to go home, like you need another month here, right, and like I mean, if I didn't learn how to talk to people at that job?
Speaker 1:like that yeah, those skills transfer over. So what was the transition from you know, climbing the corporate deli ladder? So it it's funny because the same week that I got my six months like stay on bonus okay is the week that I gave my resignation at the grocery store and they were well on your way I was like, sorry guys, I onto bigger and better things, right.
Speaker 2:And so you know I was working with Lori over an hour of the life coach and you know she had encouraged me to kind of look at what it would be like to like work in this industry. And you know, on the on the back end of things, she was talking to Michael Denene, our CEO and founder of like. Hey, like JR would be a great person for the team. He's about to start looking at different avenues in the industry. If you're looking for anybody, you better snag him before somebody else does.
Speaker 2:Yeah and so I'd spoken to some other people in the industry and I had a conversation with Michael Denene and he was like hey, like, what are your thoughts about like being the overnight detox tech, and like a house manager and I was over the moon dude. I was like you so pumped about it. I was like this like I have arrived, like this is my calling right, like that's how, how close-minded I was, I was allowing myself to be even dream of like what was out there.
Speaker 1:You're just pumped to be helping other people and back and you know, living in recovery and I love the lack of entitlement though that exists when you go through the recovery and you just have an overall gratitude and thankfulness to be in the ecosystem and to be not using and shout out. We always shout out our house managers too, because I mean the real, a lot of the real work is being done in those overnight shifts and those people getting triggered in therapy and coming home and the house manager helping them process. I mean, you know, dan Meyer, some of my house managers were crucial to my recovery process.
Speaker 2:And I will shout out to any behavioral health tech or house manager that listens to this episode you have my utmost admiration because, having worked that job that is the hardest job in this entire industry is face-to-face, one-on-one with the clients outside of the treatment center. Because what I've learned is as soon as you walk into that door, a mask comes on, and so the guys that are with them outside of the center see the majority of their true authentic.
Speaker 1:Well, y'all are sneaky too, though and I probably shouldn't say this under the tips, but what's happening at the house is well, let's just put it this way you guys do a really great job communicating like full holistic care for the patient, because you know, at the end of the day, you're wanting us to bring those masks down, so if that comes off at the house, there's a great feedback channel. To know to our case managers and therapists like hey, they were kind of triggered last night and we have to be two steps ahead of the clients right like we're master sly recovering people, the majority of us.
Speaker 2:I'll speak for myself, but I mean, yeah, like we're.
Speaker 1:You know all the tricks, you've seen it all.
Speaker 2:The conversations that I've had with clients about dude.
Speaker 1:You have no idea like how I tried to like get past that one yeah, yeah, yeah and get past me Right. No, no, you've seen it all. Well, talk to us a little bit about the role of case management. So I know you started in housing and you kind of were doing that and over time you just kind of evolved into this role where you're now leading, overseeing all of case management here at Valiant. You've got a great team of people, but tell us a little bit about what you do here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so case management, the department of case management I like to describe it to our families and to our clients is we're like in the trenches, we're the logistical people of the entire process of treatment, and so what that means is that, like I will roll up my sleeves, I'll get down into the nitty-gritty with our clients and do like the actual, like logistical work. Yeah, doctors appointment, court cases, follow-ups, appointments with lawyers or legal counsel that's all the stuff that I coordinate and it's like I tell. I tell my clients, right, is that like the emotional, the, the triggering, like the you know the trauma stuff? Talk to your therapist about that. That's what they're trained in. You and I, our goal is to get from A to B. We might add like a little bit of steps in there, but our goal and the work that you and I are doing together is to get from day one to day 90 and have a solid discharge plan so you have the best opportunity for any sort of long-term recovery after valiant living.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so how does that work between case management? So in my mind, just from from being in the program and correct me if this is not right but you got the case management team. You know your housing team, you know your clinical, your therapeutic team. Practically, how does all that that work together? Right, because there's times people are coming in and they're triggered and they're talking to case management. You have to refer them out. But you guys do a really great job of staying on the same page with all the different clients and what's going on in their world. So how do you differentiate between those those three worlds?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I would say, what's a little bit unique about case management in is that, like you know and I want to be very careful about saying this I don't want to endorse anything, but it's it's sort of like low-level therapeutic work, right. I was thinking that yeah you know I don't want to endorse in any way that like case management is. Is there?
Speaker 2:because it's not, but like we do touch on a lot of those things and I guess I would say the way that it's different is is that you know we help the client problem solve where therapy is like giving you the space to find that solution yourself. We're like no, like, no man, like this is how we're going to get there. Yeah, just very structured and detailed path on how to get from point A to point B.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now that makes sense. That's. That's a helpful distinction. One thing I loved about being a valiant is is just how relational and how I felt seen as a person. There's a clear program and structure. You have to have structures, but there's an addicts. We have to have structure. And at the same time, I felt very seen as a human, like I'm not.
Speaker 1:My story is different than others. You know, come to find out. You know I was a typical person who got in in the first week or so. You would probably remember these kind of like what am I doing here? I don't relate to any of these guys. I don't whatever in fast forward 90 days and they're my brothers, right, and I'm like. You know we might have different escapes, but we're all dealing with a lot of the same stuff. Yeah, underneath it all and valiant does a good job of helping us get down to those you know deeper levels. But from your perspective as overseeing case management, what's your maybe even like your philosophical approach to seeing people, so that it doesn't become a cookie cutter, one size fits all? How do you balance the tension of you?
Speaker 2:have stuff, structure, but we also want to work with you and your personal growth path and plan yeah, I think that all comes with and I think that we valiant living does a really good job of like taking the time to build and create that rapport with the client because, like, if I don't create a connection with you right out the gate, like we're not going to do the work that we need to do.
Speaker 2:Man, and so you know, said set everything aside for just a split second, yeah, for a few days. You know, let's put everything aside that brought you into treatment. And I just want to.
Speaker 2:I want to know you yeah right like this is who I am and you know I'm very open about who I am as a person and I think being love, being equal on a playing field. Right like there is an element of like authority, you know there, but I don't ever like to lead with that. Right like I'm like I'm I'm a case manager on paper, but like I'm your brother man, like I'm in this with you, yeah. Like I'm like I'm willing to do the dirty work with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we're brothers like we're in this together. I'm smirking because I just remember when. Remember when you asked me if I was gonna, if I was okay to change my phone number in email. And I just love the fact that you pose it as a question and in your mind you like there was no other answer. I mean it was gonna happen, but you and just your way about your kindness and the brotherhood was like, hey, man, what do you think about and I think it was part of you you giving me some agency and autonomy.
Speaker 1:Like, just like hey, what do you think about? It might be good for you to change your number in your email or whatever. And we had a conversation about it and agreed that would be good. And I think I was walking out was like hey, was that really a question?
Speaker 2:You're like no we were changing the number or whatever. Those are our Jedi Ninja case management skills.
Speaker 1:I could feel it.
Speaker 2:I knew it was happening.
Speaker 1:You got case managed.
Speaker 1:But I loved it though, because it felt it felt like respect to me. What it felt like and you know, when you come in a program like this, you're a lot of us where I, just at the lowest point, you feel like so much toxic shame. All this stuff, and what valiant helps us do is rebuild some self-love and compassion and dignity and respect and help us, like realize that we're not you know the, the scripts we think we are, that we're broken, we're hurting, we need healing. There's things that we got to deal with and we've made some really bad mistakes that have consequences to and we have to take responsibility for. But there is, there is a intentional way that you guys give us our dignity back to in those things, and sometimes you have to make a decision on our behalf that we don't love, but we're invited into that conversation, right?
Speaker 2:well, and in your spot on drew, because, like I've never seen anybody coming into treatment because they had everything put together and their world wasn't falling apart, right and like that.
Speaker 1:You know talking about like being chosen to do this work is is that, like recognizing that from an empathetic lens of like these, like these guys don't even want to be here, right, but they know they have to be right is like, yeah, that's me while back home, a lot of us are leaving families who are having to be single parents or having to deal with just trauma and betrayal and just all kinds of stuff, and so we're feeling all those tensions and you know, you know you guys are talking to our families and on our behalf and it's just a very difficult and sensitive place to be in that you guys, you guys have so much experience with this that you help us kind of walk through those moments while and even talking to partners right yeah.
Speaker 2:I talked to plenty of partners throughout a client stay with us and you know, everything happens so quick. There's so many, so many things that are left unsaid, unfigured out, like from then, like from the moment that it happens that, like you know, families back home are trying to figure out how to like put the pieces back together too right, and so you're like, and they're not in this like boot camp experience either.
Speaker 1:They're also like this is one. I learned this that you guys like they're going to grocery store and take care of kids and they're not getting the this, and so we're kind of progressing at different, different speed, sometimes too right, absolutely. So let's get practical, because I want people that are listening to this to kind of understand how this case management work, because it's a huge part of the personal experience. So, practically, how does case management and housing specifically work together?
Speaker 2:yeah, so I'll speak just very like how the whole process works. Right, so a client comes in, we do the initial intake with case management, we get the releases of information signed and all of the consent forms taken care of, and that's like kind of when we do our initial assessment on, like what this client is going to need, what this client doesn't need right now, it's like, hey, man, like stuff's bad back home, maybe we're gonna let you settle in for the weekend before, like you call your partner or family, let's just let the dust settle a little bit right. And so we like we're the initial assessors of the situation. Right, because coming into treatment right like we have the pre-screen and admissions does a great job of getting information right. But like that information doesn't tie into all of it until we see the client and get and evaluate, yeah, how, where those problems are sure right in relation to other things, and so, right out the gate, we're setting interventions.
Speaker 2:This guy, like this guy, has his phone for an hour. Like this guy, you know we're gonna put him on a digital detox for right now.
Speaker 2:Like this guy, like you know no access to any sort of devices right so whatever the intervention is dependent on, the client is where it's at, and it's like I have a guy right now that has four kids back home and you know he sends his daughters video messages every night. Right like, not only the bad stuff do we assess, but we also assess what. What's gonna make you more comfortable in treatment?
Speaker 2:yeah is as silly as it may sound. If it's your favorite candy bar man like, let's do it. Like whatever barrier that I can remove to help make your process here and your stay at valiant living, yes, easier.
Speaker 1:That's my job and that's what I work with housing on well and what I want people to know is what I felt from you and also from Travis, who you know leads up our housing is I felt like you guys were looking for ways to say yes, if it was good for me in my recovery, right, like for me I had family come to town and like this was well into the end of the program. But you know there's day passes and overnight passes then, and also you're looking at us as individuals. What are you ready for? Yeah, sometimes they're ready sooner and sometimes it's later, you know, and we have to respect that process. But it felt like if this is good for your recovery and we can make this happen, we're gonna try to help you within boundaries of course, but I thought that was a huge part.
Speaker 1:So case management and housing work very specifically.
Speaker 2:Now talk a little bit about how case management and, like the therapeutic team, the clinical team work together yeah, so case management and therapy work together from the lens of, like, what I look for when I'm working with the client's therapist is, like, what they're doing and what they're talking about in therapy, is that matching right? Like, is it consistent, is it congruent with where they're at right? Like, what are you seeing? This is what they're doing, this is what they're telling me, and so kind of like shifting gears from housing and kind of like making sure that, like, our clients are comfortable and have what they need from a clinical lens, more towards okay, like, is everything lining up? Like, are they different with you than they are with me? Like, what are you seeing in therapy? You know, after I implemented this intervention on no communication with family back home for the weekend, right, what did that bring up in therapy? Right, what, what did you guys work on?
Speaker 2:yeah so again, right like case management is beautiful in that aspect is because you know we get to set these interventions with housing and we get to work directly with the therapists on, you know, is what we're doing working right what do we need to change?
Speaker 1:what do we need to add more of, take less of yeah, some of you guys are kind of the hub for all the activity in a lot of ways. Right, because I would. I would imagine there might even be people that would let their guard down with you that they don't want the therapist, or vice versa, and you guys have to communicate back and forth right, little sims jokes about that that.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm historically the person that clients will come to talk to, yeah, rather than their therapist about things. And back to that connection that I hope to create on the front end, right, and I again feel honored and privileged that people come to me with that, you know, feeling safe and with what they need to say in those moments and if you're listening to this and you come to valiant at some point, you get JR as your case manager.
Speaker 1:Just start talking about country music with them and then you'll you'll have them from day one. He was like my music brother well, jr tell us is there. Is there anything when it comes to case management, or even in your experience, that you would want? If you're talking to someone who is thinking about coming into the program, what would be your encouragement to that person?
Speaker 2:I mean, I would, I would say, to lean into what you're feeling and and to ask curious questions about the process and what you think you might need. Because you know, and if you land up at Valiant and you want to know something about something or whatever, talk to your case manager, because I see this time and time again where people hold on to these questions for a long time while they're with us and have withheld themselves from an opportunity of receiving something when they were too embarrassed or shameful or didn't know how to ask. And so you know, if you're thinking about coming to Valiant Living that's kind of like that's what I talk about to my staff constantly is give these guys the opportunity to be curious and ask questions.
Speaker 1:I mean, you know it's and you guys really are advocates for us, and that's the thing. If I were you, I would imagine being frustrated sometimes like, hey, if you'll let me in and let me know what's going on, I'm only here to help you get better right. You know your advocates for us and so I appreciate you saying that because I think that's true. I want people to know the same thing. You know it's funny how we'll be struggling so much and come to treatment and so whole things back. My encouragement is just go all in, just from day one. You know, if I could go back and talk to myself day one, I would say, man, just try to the best.
Speaker 1:You can surrender Like that was the word, like surrender from the first day. Let go of control, because we're all, most of us. I know I was a control freak coming in and so something as small as taking my phone away was just so triggering for me because I'm just was so out of control of my life. But you know I was one of the other clients that was in told gave me that advice. He's like, hey, the sooner you can get to surrender, the better it's going to be, and our case managers are going to help us with that.
Speaker 2:And that's it right, and it's just. Like you know, conveying that surrender to our clients is that, like I may not know your entire story from the get go and you may not trust me, and that's fine. I hope that we can get to a place that you will trust me, but know this, without a doubt, that I have experience with getting to where you want to be. That's good, yeah, and so with that right, like I may not know your story, you may not trust me, but I can help you get to where you're hoping to be, and that's all I need for right now.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's all I need for you. Well, and you guys taught us about provisional trust, which was right now. You can't trust yourself, that's for sure. So you need to have a team of people that you can say, hey for this next season. I'm going to trust you and with the decisions you make on behalf of trust and what you have here at valiant, the team has this track record. Like we've done this a lot, we know like, hey, if we work these steps, here's what could happen for you and it's. It's not a perfect, you know. There's people's stories or brokenness and all kinds of stuff. I definitely want to have you back on, because we haven't even touched on schemas yet and I want to hear we got so much schemas is my jam.
Speaker 2:We need to do an entire show on episode on schemas.
Speaker 1:No we're going to I. Will you come back and talk about?
Speaker 2:that 100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a. I'm tempted to go into it right now Cause I loved it. You taught a session. It was a weekly session. I believe on on schemas might've been twice a week, I can't remember, but it was impactful for me and it was eye opening because mine was like mistrust and entitlement.
Speaker 2:You remember I was like I was just in a group this morning with a client that was doing the timeline. Oh yeah, and after I just met up with him in the hallway and he was like you know what? I just realized that, like patterns of, like, my senior year of college was all my unrelenting standards.
Speaker 1:And I'm like ski was there they are, I love it's music to my ears when I like unrelenting standards. Anyways, that'll be another way that's a whole other deep dive. Before I let you go, tell me just what is your, what is your dream for valiant, if you're looking down the down the road a few years, or maybe even just for yourself, what's something that you're aspiring to or that you'd like to see in the future?
Speaker 2:I mean for me or for valiant as a whole, both.
Speaker 1:I mean, yeah, what are you dreaming about?
Speaker 2:I, I, you know I'm in a masters program right now for clinical social work. I, you know, I hopped on the social work bandwagon and talking, you, talking about me being a helper from the beginning, right Like I was. I was the social worker from the time that I can remember and, you know, going down that clinical path and really staying authentic to myself and, in that, the relationships that I have with my clients. You know, I got a call last week from a client that was in tears, joyful tears of like hey, man, like this is where I'm at in life right now. I'm still in recovery, I'm still clean.
Speaker 2:That's all like like because of you, and I'm like no man, you did the work, I was along for the ride, you did the work. And he's like what? Like how do I repay you? Like I owe you so much. And I'm like, dude, keep doing what you're doing. And it's just like those, I just got the chills. Those are the calls that I get. Like I just want to be authentic to myself and let that show and let my clients that I work with feel that I love that. Like I'll tell you this other story of a client that I had him and his partner got their infant baby taken away at birth. I ran into him at a meeting a few weeks ago and he picked up 18 months.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:Him. The girlfriend and the baby were together.
Speaker 1:Come on man.
Speaker 2:And like I got to hold this baby. Are you kidding me? I sat in you know department of human services court hearings with this client fighting for his kid back in like this baby is like two and a half now or maybe like one and a half, two years old. She's all over the place. He just picks her up and puts her in my arms and I'm like, what do I do? What do I do? It's a baby. But like those moments.
Speaker 1:That's your why.
Speaker 2:Like that's. That's what I'm here for, yeah.
Speaker 1:You tell me that all the time. I'm like Jay, how could I ever repay you You're?
Speaker 2:just like, just keep doing the work.
Speaker 1:man Just keep doing the work.
Speaker 2:And in that same vein, no pun intended, that's why I work for Valiant Living Right Like I. I know, without a doubt, that the entire team here's motives are in the right place and I trust this team Right Like I trust our founder, I trust our clinical staff, I. So that's why I'm here at Valiant. People have asked me there, like JR, like why haven't you gone to work anywhere else? I'm a lifer man Like. Valiant is my place and I you know I've been, I'm alumni of this program, I work at this program. This is where I need to be and I just love what Valiant's doing.
Speaker 1:I'm grateful to hear that man. You're, I tell you this, but you're, you're one of my heroes and I use.
Speaker 2:you're one of my heroes, well man, thank you.
Speaker 1:I just I was telling someone earlier and I'm I reframe me how to say this cause I, I was, I've said, I mean it with all my heart the Valiant and people like you have saved my life. But what's more true is that you gave me the tools and equipped me to know how to save my life and save my marriage, and that's what you do for us. It's, it's why we can go on and live and not be codependent, even with Valiant, because we, you, have taught us how to handle stress and anxiety and all the different things that trigger us into addiction. And so thank you for that, man. I know, I know you got a Snoop Dogg show to get to, so I don't want to.
Speaker 2:I'm, I'm living. I'm living my best life.
Speaker 1:I just can't believe. You didn't invite me to go with you, but you have to come back on man, You're amazing and thank you for doing this. Anytime, dude.
Speaker 2:Any, any opportunity that I have to spend with you. Yeah, sign me up. Okay, I will take a red eye, I don't care what it is.
Speaker 1:Well, plenty more time in the future, man. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:You're welcome, thank you.
Speaker 1:Well, we appreciate you listening to this episode of the Valiant Living podcast and our hope is that it helped you feel educated, encouraged and even empowered on your journey towards peace and freedom. If we can serve you or your loved one in any way, we'd love to have a conversation with you. You can call 720-756-7941 or email admissions at ValiantLivingcom. At Valiant Living, we treat the whole person so you not only survive, but you thrive in the life you deserve. And finally, if this episode has been helpful to you, it would mean a lot to us if you'd subscribe and even share it with your friends and family. You can also follow along with us on Instagram and Facebook by simply searching Valiant Living. Thanks again for listening and supporting the Valiant Living podcast. We'll see you next week.